Deus Ex Machina
Central New Jersey
Senior Member
Joined: 09/25/2009
View Profile
 Offline
|
pulsar wrote:Deus Ex Machina wrote:Verizon's 3G coverage ad is all hype.
I'm sure that Verizon showed their 3G coverage from both their towers AND the towers they have sharing agreements with, while the AT&T coverage just shows AT&T owned towers.
Do you have a source for that? It is hard to get an AT&T 3G coverage map for the entire US. Here is the best I can do from their site. The 3G areas are in blue.
Here is the Verizon coverage map. Again, the 3G areas are in blue.
We travel a lot and have found the Verizon map to be very accurate.
Deus Ex Machina wrote:AT&T uses the international GSM technology. Verizon use proprietary CDMA technology used only by Verizon and only in the US.
I guess CDMA is proprietary, since it is not open source. But it was Qualcomm, not Verizon, who developed it. Sprint also uses this technology. In Canada - Bell Mobility. In Mexico - Iusacell. China - China Telecom. And so forth. My point here is not to argue which is a better technology, GSM or CDMA, only to correct the above.
Tom
Just my opinion judging by usual advertizing tactics. Don't know if it's true, don't care to waste time finding out. All I know is that my AT&T phone has always worked wherever my freind's Verizon phone worked during our travels (and in some places that my friend's hasn't).
Also, they insinuate that when you go out of AT&T 3G coverage, you are left with nothing at all.
My phone works, and I have no intention of changing side becuase of the highly biased advertising shmuts plastered on our TV screens. That's all I'm saying. 
And I stand corrected, I was not aware that others were using CDMA now.
* This post was
edited 11/01/09 10:01am by Deus Ex Machina *
Paul
|
waroads
WA
Full Member
Joined: 02/28/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
Deus Ex Machina wrote:pulsar wrote:Deus Ex Machina wrote:Verizon's 3G coverage ad is all hype.
I'm sure that Verizon showed their 3G coverage from both their towers AND the towers they have sharing agreements with, while the AT&T coverage just shows AT&T owned towers.
Do you have a source for that? It is hard to get an AT&T 3G coverage map for the entire US. Here is the best I can do from their site. The 3G areas are in blue.
-snip-
Here is the Verizon coverage map. Again, the 3G areas are in blue.
-snip-
We travel a lot and have found the Verizon map to be very accurate.
Deus Ex Machina wrote:AT&T uses the international GSM technology. Verizon use proprietary CDMA technology used only by Verizon and only in the US.
I guess CDMA is proprietary, since it is not open source. But it was Qualcomm, not Verizon, who developed it. Sprint also uses this technology. In Canada - Bell Mobility. In Mexico - Iusacell. China - China Telecom. And so forth. My point here is not to argue which is a better technology, GSM or CDMA, only to correct the above.
Tom
Just my opinion judging by usual advertizing tactics. Don't know if it's true, don't care to waste time finding out. All I know is that my AT&T phone has always worked wherever my freind's Verizon phone worked during our travels (and in some places that my friend's hasn't).
Also, they insinuate that when you go out of AT&T 3G coverage, you are left with nothing at all.
My phone works, and I have no intention of changing side becuase of the highly biased advertising shmuts plastered on our TV screens. That's all I'm saying.
And I stand corrected, I was not aware that others were using CDMA now.
I think his point was that the map that AT&T shows on their own website looks much the same as the one in the advertisement. AT&T's 3G coverage is relatively small...no way around it. I don't think he was trying to get you to change "sides".
Also, not only are others using it, there's plenty outside of the US too. I'm pretty sure these weren't all just recent implementations either. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA2000#Countries_with_CDMA2000_operators
Azerbaijan: CATEL (Caspian American Telecommunications LLC) is the first CDMA2000 1x WLL 800MHz operator in Azerbaijan also provides fixed wireless phone service, live since 2003. Aztrank (Aztrank LLC) also provides CDMA2000 1x WLL 450MHz service since March 2003. CMDA2000 1x EV-DO is planned to be launched in near future.
Bangladesh: Pacific Telecom's Citycell is the only CDMA2000 1x RTT provider among mobile phone operators. Fixed wireless phone operators (NationalPhone, Rankstel, DhakaPhone,OneTel Communications Ltd.,Jalalabad Telecom Ltd(Bijoy Phone)) also provide CDMA2000 1x RTT.
Belarus: BelCel (diallog) provides CDMA2000 1x and EV-DO in the 450 MHz band (for phones and modems).
Brazil: Vivo provides a CDMA2000 1xRTT and EV-DO network that is being phased out for an EDGE and HSPA network for data access. Embratel also provides a CDMA2000 1xRTT-based network for WLL and an EVDO network for broadband access.
Canada: Most providers are also using 1x including Aliant, Bell Mobility, Manitoba Telecom Services, NMI Mobility, NorthernTel, SaskTel, Solo Mobile, TBayTel, Télébec Mobilité, TELUS Mobility and Virgin Mobile Canada.
China: China Telecom took over the CDMA2000 network from China Unicom during the 2008 telecom industry reform. They operate their 3G network in the 800MHz and 2100MHz bands.
Czech Republic: Telefónica O2 Czech Republic, formerly Eurotel (the world's first CDMA EV-DO in 450 MHz launched in August 2004), succeeded by UMTS, and Mobilkom a.s. alias U:fon(430 MHz launched in May 2007)
Denmark: Nordisk Mobiltelefoni operates CDMA2000 network in the 450 MHz band. Modems will work in Norway, Sweden, Iceland, Poland and Ireland.
Dominican Republic: Claro-Codetel operates CDMA2000 in 1900 MHz band, Viva (Trilogy Int) operates 1x and EvDO Rev. 0 in 1900 MHz band, and Tricom operates CDMA 1x in 1800 MHz band.
Ecuador: Telecsa S.A Alegro PCS CDMA 1X - CDMA 1X EVDO network operating in 1900 MHz. Movistar CDMA 1X network operating in 850 MHz.
Estonia: CDMA2000 1x network operating in 450 MHz spectrum is available since July 2007 by Eesti Energia subsidiary Televõrgu AS by name Kõu, covering all of country territory.
Ethiopia: CDMA2000, operated by Ethiopian Telecommunication Corporation
Gambia: CDMA20001x network, 450, 800 MHz, since 2005 from Gamtel, named Jamano, equipment from Huawei. EV-DO planned.
Georgia: United Telecom of Georgia CDMA 1X - CDMA 1X EVDO network operating in 800 MHz
Germany: NetCologne operates a CDMA2000 network in the 450MHz band in the Cologne city area. The network is only used for data services, and not for telephony.[2]
Ghana: CDMA2000 1x network operating in 800 MHz spectrum is available since October 2005 by Kasapa subsidiary Hutchinson Telecom, covering most of the country's 10 regions.
Hong Kong: CDMA2000 1xEVDO operated by PCCW Mobile since 2008.[1]
Iceland: Ice.net "Nordisk Mobiltelefoni AB" will soon launch a CDMA2000 network in the 450 MHz band on Iceland. Modems will work in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Poland and Ireland.
India: Reliance Communications and Tata Teleservices are major wireless services providers on CDMA2000 EV-DO.
Indonesia: Mobile-8 Telecom with its brand, FREN is the first Indonesian major wireless operator with CDMA2000 1x RTT and currently expand its EVDO Rev A, who has introduced the first Mobile TV in the market. Later followed by Sampoerna Telecom with its brand, CERIA which operates CDMA 2000 at 450 MHz. Smart Telecom has launched CDMA2000 1x RTT product called SMART in 2007. In November 2008 Smart has officially launched the first EVDO Rev A in the region. The other CDMA2000 providers are running with fixed wireless access license such as Bakrie Telkom with its brand, Esia and Telkom with its brand, TelkomFlexi.
Israel: Pelephone operates a CDMA2000/EV-DO network, however, in early 2009 the company launched its new UMTS network, and stopped selling devices that use the CDMA system, although it is expected to continue supporting its CDMA/EV-DO network for the foreseeable future.
Jamaica : Claro (formerly Miphone) [www.claro.com.jm] Claro operates a CDMA2000 network with 1x technology. This network however has been sidelined by the recent roll out of their 3G UMTS HSDPA network
Japan: On April 1, 2002, au (by KDDI) launched CDMA 1X brand using CDMA2000 1x technology. On November 28, 2003, au launched EV-DO service in the CDMA 1X WIN brand. au currently providing an EV-DO Rev. A network, the first carrier to do so.
Kazakhstan: In 2004 Altel introduced third generation network labeling it as Pathword, operated under CDMA200 1x technology.
Kenya: CDMA2000 1x and EV-DO Rev. A is available in Kenya through Telcom Kenya. Also CDMA2000 1x is available in Nairobi through Flashcom LTD, and E.M. Communications Ltd., which is branded as "popote" in Kenya.
Latvia: Triatel offers mobile and fixed telephony and data services using CDMA2000 at 450 MHz.
Macau: bidded by China Unicom since 2006 and started operation since 2007. Business took over by China Telecom in 2008.
Malawi: CDMA2000 1x and EV-DO will be available in Malawi in 2008 through Access Communications Ltd the Second National Operator in the 800 MHz Band.
Madagascar: Telma (Telecom Malagasy) operates CDMA2000 network in the 450 MHz band. The network called "Telma fixe" is available since 2005 and offers fixed telephony and data services.
Mexico: Iusacell and Unefon offer mobile telephony and data services using a 1x and EV-DO network.
Moldova: Unite offers both mobile and fixed telephony and data services using CDMA2000 in the 450 MHz band since March 2007.
Mongolia: G-mobile and Skytel are the operators using cdma 2000
Morocco: Wana was the first operator offering CDMA2000 service. Maroc Telecom and Méditel followed short time later.
Nepal: Nepal Telecom is providing the service using CDMA2000 and United Telecom Limited is providing service to customers using IS-95 standard.
New Zealand: Although Telecom's primary network is UMTS (3G GSM), they are still supporting a legacy CDMA2000 network until 2012 [2].
Norway: Ice.net former known as Nordisk Mobiltelefon, provides CDMA2000 in the 450 MHz band (for modems). Modems will work in Norway, Sweden, Denmark, Poland, Iceland and Ireland.
Pakistan: PTCL, World Call, and GoCdma provide CDMA2000 connections..
Poland: Since 2002 Sferia provides fixed and mobile telephones in Warsaw using a CDMA2000 radio network in the 870 MHz band. Nordisk Polska launched at the beginning of 2008 CDMA2000 network in the 410-430 MHz band in Poland. Now (2009) the coverage is about 42% of country and they are able to provide full set of services: voice, EVDO, PTT and SMS services. Also the national telephone and internet service provider, Telekomunikacja Polska S.A. is about to launch a CDMA2000 based internet access service in the 450 MHz band.
Portugal: Zapp Mobile provides CDMA2000 in the 450 MHz band (for modems).
Romania: Zapp Mobile provides CDMA2000 in the 450 MHz band (for phones and modems); Romtelecom provides CDMA2000 in the 420 MHz band.
Russia: Skylink is CDMA2000 1x and EV-DO operator in many regions, including Moscow Oblast, Leningrad Oblast and others. BWC is CDMA2000 1x and EV-DO operator in Irkutsk Oblast. ETK is cdma2000 1x and EV-DO operator in Krasnoyarsk Krai.
Sierra Leone: [3] provides a CDMA2000 1xRTT EV-DO network that is being deployed for high speed mobile data access and WLLto be commission.
South Africa: Neotel has been awarded a licence to operate in the 800 MHz band by ICASA and launched CDMA2000 services in 2008.
Sri Lanka: CDMA technology was introduced in 2005 and currently there are 5 CDMA2000 operators. Sri Lanka Telecom (SLT) www.slt.lk moved to CDMA2000 service supplier and has ZTE EVDO Rev. 0 network and all island covered 1x data service. Suntel www.suntel.lk and Lanka Bell www.lankabell.com are using 800 MHz range. Both operators have islandwide 1x data service and these days trying to enter EVDO rev0 data market. DBN and Tritel are expecting to enter the Sri Lanka CDMA2000 market in June 2007 on 450 MHz. Among the five operators, Lanka Bell has the largest CDMA2000 market share.
Suriname: Telesur provides a CDMA2000 1xRTT EV-DO network that is being deployed for high speed mobile data access and WLL.
Sweden: Ice.net former known as "Nordisk Mobiltelefoni AB" provides CDMA2000 in the 450 MHz band for data modems. The modems can be used on the same network in Norway and Denmark. And later also on Ireland, Iceland and in Poland.
Tanzania: Zantel provides CDMA2000 1xEV-DO Rel. 0 in the 800 MHz band, Tanzania Telecommunications Company Ltd. uses CDMA2000 1x in the 450 MHz band and Sasatel launched a new CDMA2000 EV-DO 800 MHz band network June 2009, concentrating its service in the Dar-es-Salaam area.
Taiwan: Asia Pacific Telecom Group (APTG) provides CDMA2000 in the 800 MHz band
Thailand: Hutch provides CDMA2000-1xRTT service and is in process of deploying EV-DO in 25 provinces. CAT Telecom is currently in the final phase of implementing an EV-DO network in the remaining provinces of Thailand. They plan to join forces and co-market a nationwide EV-DO service under a single brand, which has yet to be decided.
Trinidad and Tobago: TSTT provides CDMA2000 1x EVDO for data service only and is branded as TSTT wireless broadband.[4] Their voice and low speed data network is GSM/EDGE and separate from the EVDO network.
Ukraine: PEOPLEnet is the provider 800 MHz CDMA2000 1x and EV-DO Rev A since 2007 year. MTS 450 MHz Rev A (only data, no telephony), Intertelecom (IT) 800 MHz CDMA2000 1x and partly EV-DO Rev A (in regions, where IT has a license for 2 bands)
United States: Alltel, Cellcom, Cellular South, Cricket Communications (from Leap Wireless), MetroPCS, nTelos, Sprint PCS, U.S. Cellular, Alaska Communications Systems and Verizon Wireless and Claro Wireless (in Puerto Rico formerly VZW) use 1x & EVDO.
Venezuela: Movilnet and movistar are the country's wireless services providers on CDMA2000 1x and CDMA Ev-DO, with nationwide coverage (both in 800 Mhz).
Yemen: Yemen Mobile supports CDMA2000/1x.
|
jorbill2or
Oregon
Senior Member
Joined: 10/02/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
Offline
|
waroads ... NOBODY who travels outside the US takes their Verizon phone and expects to use it!!! Even in CDMA areas because of frequency changes. Sorry but GSM is the world standard. the fact you can just pop a new card in is the key.CDMA no sim card and LOTS of carrier control.. Verizon wouldnt even give customers bluetooth for a long time after everyone else had it they disabled it in the phone. Thats not to say Verizons 3g service in the US isn't larger.. it is!! ATT's only saving asset is EDGE... which if you have a signal you have edge, which while slower is at least very usable. Verizon is starting to change to LTE ( GSM based) next year. since its not compatible with current phones .. lets see how they handle the changeover 
Bill
2000 Ford f250 7.3L 6sp man 3.73
ride rite airbags
2004 everest 343L
|
waroads
WA
Full Member
Joined: 02/28/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
jorbill2or wrote:waroads ... NOBODY who travels outside the US takes their Verizon phone and expects to use it!!! Even in CDMA areas because of frequency changes. Sorry but GSM is the world standard. the fact you can just pop a new card in is the key.CDMA no sim card and LOTS of carrier control.. Verizon wouldnt even give customers bluetooth for a long time after everyone else had it they disabled it in the phone. Thats not to say Verizons 3g service in the US isn't larger.. it is!! ATT's only saving asset is EDGE... which if you have a signal you have edge, which while slower is at least very usable. Verizon is starting to change to LTE ( GSM based) next year. since its not compatible with current phones .. lets see how they handle the changeover
Yup, nobody including myself. The statement made was:
Deus Ex Machina wrote:AT&T uses the international GSM technology. Verizon use proprietary CDMA technology used only by Verizon and only in the US.
And that isn't, nor has it been, true.
Also, while EDGE may help for data, they are still terrible for coverage in general. At a kids's soccer game yesterday in a well populated suburb, guy gets a phone call that drops part way through. Says he gets dropped calls all the time now that he switched to AT&T. It's a popular theme I've been hearing for some time now. It may be a different experience out east though.
|
jedfoley
Alvin, TX
Full Member
Joined: 05/27/2007
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
Offline
|
jorbill2or wrote:waroads ... NOBODY who travels outside the US takes their Verizon phone and expects to use it!!! Even in CDMA areas because of frequency changes. Sorry but GSM is the world standard. the fact you can just pop a new card in is the key.CDMA no sim card and LOTS of carrier control.. Verizon wouldnt even give customers bluetooth for a long time after everyone else had it they disabled it in the phone. Thats not to say Verizons 3g service in the US isn't larger.. it is!! ATT's only saving asset is EDGE... which if you have a signal you have edge, which while slower is at least very usable. Verizon is starting to change to LTE ( GSM based) next year. since its not compatible with current phones .. lets see how they handle the changeover
Here is a list of some select people who travel outside the US taking their Verizon phones (by no means complete): All members of the White House staff, All agents in the FBI, All agents in the Secret Service, Members of the USAF, US Army, US Navy, US Coast Guard, US Marines. And me. I have not been to the over 200 countries where my Blackberry 8830 works, but it will work great in Italy when I go there next Spring.
LTE is not "GSM based", in fact, it is not compatible with current 3G GSM technology any more than it is with CDMA. LTE is a generic term, just as GSM is. GSM is standardizing on LTE for 4G, which actually uses Orthagonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM) as its coding method. OFDM was developed by Bell Labs in the late 1960s and has been used in the US for secure wireless communications by the military and Federal Government for decades.
All carriers who are developing a 4G network will overlay it onto their existing network using different spectrum than their current networks. We will see dual, tri, and quad band handsets for at least a few years after 4G is launched, regardless whether you use Verizon, ATT, Sprint or anybody else.
|
|
|
magicbus
LBI, NJ or Nantucket, MA
Senior Member
Joined: 06/16/2002
View Profile
|
waroads wrote:.. At a kids's soccer game yesterday in a well populated suburb, guy gets a phone call that drops part way through. This is really such a silly argument, you should stick with the maps. I had to install Comcast phone service for our summer tenants because they can't use their Verizon phones from our house. While the cable guy was trying to figure out why On Demand wasn't working I just plugged my iPhone into the laptop and kept working over 3G.
And how was a thread on iPhones and RV's allowed to turn into a "my map is bigger than your map" thread  The only post on topic was the OP's!!!
And yes, things are much different on the East Coast.
Dave
Life doesn't come with a safety fence around it... enjoy it anyway.
|
jedfoley
Alvin, TX
Full Member
Joined: 05/27/2007
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
Offline
|
magicbus wrote:waroads wrote:.. At a kids's soccer game yesterday in a well populated suburb, guy gets a phone call that drops part way through. This is really such a silly argument, you should stick with the maps. I had to install Comcast phone service for our summer tenants because they can't use their Verizon phones from our house. While the cable guy was trying to figure out why On Demand wasn't working I just plugged my iPhone into the laptop and kept working over 3G.
And how was a thread on iPhones and RV's allowed to turn into a "my map is bigger than your map" thread The only post on topic was the OP's!!!
And yes, things are much different on the East Coast.
Dave
It doesn't take much to see...there is a person who posted here who would find a way to take potshots at the pope if the subject was roses:-)
|
jorbill2or
Oregon
Senior Member
Joined: 10/02/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
Offline
|
jedfoley wrote:jorbill2or wrote:waroads ... NOBODY who travels outside the US takes their Verizon phone and expects to use it!!! Even in CDMA areas because of frequency changes. Sorry but GSM is the world standard. the fact you can just pop a new card in is the key.CDMA no sim card and LOTS of carrier control.. Verizon wouldnt even give customers bluetooth for a long time after everyone else had it they disabled it in the phone. Thats not to say Verizons 3g service in the US isn't larger.. it is!! ATT's only saving asset is EDGE... which if you have a signal you have edge, which while slower is at least very usable. Verizon is starting to change to LTE ( GSM based) next year. since its not compatible with current phones .. lets see how they handle the changeover
Here is a list of some select people who travel outside the US taking their Verizon phones (by no means complete): All members of the White House staff, All agents in the FBI, All agents in the Secret Service, Members of the USAF, US Army, US Navy, US Coast Guard, US Marines. And me. I have not been to the over 200 countries where my Blackberry 8830 works, but it will work great in Italy when I go there next Spring.
LTE is not "GSM based", in fact, it is not compatible with current 3G GSM technology any more than it is with CDMA. LTE is a generic term, just as GSM is. GSM is standardizing on LTE for 4G, which actually uses Orthagonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM) as its coding method. OFDM was developed by Bell Labs in the late 1960s and has been used in the US for secure wireless communications by the military and Federal Government for decades.
All carriers who are developing a 4G network will overlay it onto their existing network using different spectrum than their current networks. We will see dual, tri, and quad band handsets for at least a few years after 4G is launched, regardless whether you use Verizon, ATT, Sprint or anybody else.
I didn't say LTE was compatible with GSM (or CDMA)
I stand corrected on LTE technical mumbo jumbo but your statement on your 8830 confuses me... I thought you were pretty sharp till you got there.... since you got it Im sure your 8830 will work .. IT HAS A GSM band radio it ... Thats why it works. Its a world phone! ..both CDMA for the states and GSM abroad. note ad copy
BlackBerry 8830 World Edition
A versatile smart phone that connects to both CDMA and GSM networks to keep business travelers connected at home and abroad.
Have a great trip Italy is very nice
|
waroads
WA
Full Member
Joined: 02/28/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
magicbus wrote:waroads wrote:.. At a kids's soccer game yesterday in a well populated suburb, guy gets a phone call that drops part way through. This is really such a silly argument, you should stick with the maps. I had to install Comcast phone service for our summer tenants because they can't use their Verizon phones from our house. While the cable guy was trying to figure out why On Demand wasn't working I just plugged my iPhone into the laptop and kept working over 3G.
And how was a thread on iPhones and RV's allowed to turn into a "my map is bigger than your map" thread The only post on topic was the OP's!!!
And yes, things are much different on the East Coast.
Dave
You conveniently left off the rest where he complained that it happens all the time to him. I didn't clarify but I am pretty sure he didn't mean just at the soccer fields. It's simply an additional anecdotal data point about AT&T coverage.
RE maps: I was simply pointing out to the poster that said not to pay attention to the verizon commercials because they had a disclaimer regarding the accuracy of the AT&T map used, that the maps that AT&T publishes themselves has a similar/same disclaimer regarding their coverage.
|
jedfoley
Alvin, TX
Full Member
Joined: 05/27/2007
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
Offline
|
jorbill2or wrote:
I didn't say LTE was compatible with GSM (or CDMA)
I stand corrected on LTE technical mumbo jumbo but your statement on your 8830 confuses me... I thought you were pretty sharp till you got there.... since you got it Im sure your 8830 will work .. IT HAS A GSM band radio it ... Thats why it works. Its a world phone! ..both CDMA for the states and GSM abroad. note ad copy
BlackBerry 8830 World Edition
A versatile smart phone that connects to both CDMA and GSM networks to keep business travelers connected at home and abroad.
Have a great trip Italy is very nice
Acutally, you did say LTE was GSM based. Please re-read your post.
Your other point was that NOBODY who travels overseas uses Verizon. This is just not true. I'm a Verizon customer and any Verizon customer can either use their phone overseas, or get one which they can use overseas. I have used the Blackberry 8830 for over 2 years, so this capability is not a new development.
I hope the rest of the forum forgives me for getting into this with you, and that at least someone gets something out of it.
I should probably have just let you keep on trucking. See you down the road :-)
* This post was
edited 11/03/09 10:16am by an administrator/moderator *
|
|
|
|
