windellmc
Indianapolis
Senior Member
Joined: 02/22/2007
View Profile
 Offline
|
The only reason a diesel engine has a flat torque curve is because of the turbo. A gas engine with a turbo will have a similar torque curve to a diesel only it will be able to carry torque out to a much higher speed. Fuel economy will suck on the torque curve compared to the diesel though.
|
SRockwood
San Diego
Senior Member
Joined: 01/31/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
CliffordG wrote:I can understand turbocharging in a diesel tow vehicle. I'm scratching my head at turbocharging in a gasoline tow vehicle.
Seems to me that the powerband would be too narrow for towing if you TCd a gasser.
I could see supercharging but I'm unsure about turbocharging.
Actually, a diesel has a MUCH narrower powerband than a gas engine would. A gas engine would require less boost to reach the same torque and would be able to rev higher. If you can get a turbo to spool up by 1500rpm on a diesel, you can do it on a gasser as well, except the gasser would rev to 5-6000rpm instead of 3-3500.
The biggest hurdles on a gas engine would be controlling knock, coolant temps and fuel consumption.
|
wilber1
Abbotsford B.C. Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 12/16/2002
View Profile
|
CliffordG wrote:Capt Skup wrote:Imagine if the Ford guys do an "Ecoboost" version of the 6.2 with the twin turbos, I could see the engine easily producing 500hp and 500lbs torque, infringing on diesel territory without the emission headaches. Real nice in a F-350.
I can understand turbocharging in a diesel tow vehicle. I'm scratching my head at turbocharging in a gasoline tow vehicle.
Seems to me that the powerband would be too narrow for towing if you TCd a gasser.
I could see supercharging but I'm unsure about turbocharging.
That's the nicest thing about any turbo gasser. You don't have to rev the snot out of them to get great power and torque. Few have been designed for towing up to now because of the extra stress it puts on them.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC
|
roamerr
NC
Senior Member
Joined: 10/29/2008
View Profile
Offline
|
I like the turbo gasser but it will drink fuel like a big motor. A 500 hp turbo gasser will drink as much fuel when pulling as a larger motor non turbo'd. I had a VW Jetta with a 1.8T that put out 325 hp and 250 ft/lb torque with no issue at 18 psi. I see a 500 hp 6.2L gasser as being a conservative tune especially if it can run a 10.1 compression ratio.
As for fuel economy -- it had better have a huge tank....
Can't beat a diesel for fuel economy. The comments on diesels having flat torque curves is definitely due to the turbo's. The diesels in trucks today are nothing like the old non-turbo diesels of years ago. The non-turbo diesels pulled great but were slow -- they did not mind work but not fast. I still prefer a 40 hp nonturbo tractor over a 50 hp turbo'd tractor but I'd always want a turbo on any diesel truck.
2009 Cherokee Wolfpack DFWP27 Toyhauler
2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Hemi Quad Cab w/3.92
Can-Am Outlander 800 XT
Yamaha Rhino 660
Honda Recon
Honda XR200R
2 dogs - Basset Hound and German Beagle (mutt)
Great Family Fun!!
|
carringb
Corvallis, OR
Senior Member
Joined: 07/28/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
roamerr wrote:I like the turbo gasser but it will drink fuel like a big motor. A 500 hp turbo gasser will drink as much fuel when pulling as a larger motor non turbo'd. .
That is true of a traditional turbo setup. But the Ford lineup of twin-turbos using higher compression and a leaner burn, which is allowed by direct injection. So far all of the cars the Ecoboost has gone into gets the same or better fuel economy than the standard non-turbo motors which are the same size. I agree that won't hold true when towing, but it will still be a more efficient motor, and allow better fuel economy when not towing which for most is the majority of the time.
Bryan
2000 Ford E350 DRW Wagon (14-pass all captains chairs)
V10 w/ Banks PowerPack, Diablo Predator, 4.56 LS, 250,000+ miles
Had: Weekend Warrior 41' FSW
|
|
|
ib516
Up here!
Senior Member
Joined: 04/18/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
While the numbers are impressive, to put it in persective, GM already has a pickup with similar output with the same engine size, and Dodge also has the 6.1L Hemi that puts out 425hp. Ford is really just catching up to their competition when you look at it objectively.
In any case, it will likely make an already solid truck (the F150) a better seller, and finally fix it's only achilles heel, which was the 'weaker than the competition but still reasonably powerful for most people' 5.4L V8. Good for Ford. I have several friends that have newer F150s, and when I'm in their trucks, I always marvel at how solid and quiet the trucks are, and how good they ride.
2004 Cougar 301 BHS
2007 Dodge/5.9L Cummins Turbo Diesel/3500 SRW/ Megacab/48RE/4x4/3.73
Hypertech Max Energy programmed 
PICTURES
Previous Trucks:
2002 Dodge 2500, 4x4, Cummins Turbo Diesel, 3.55, 47RE
2001 Dodge 2500, 4x4, 360 gasser, 4.10, 46RE
|
Golden_HVAC
Fulltime, CA, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 08/19/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
carringb wrote:roamerr wrote:I like the turbo gasser but it will drink fuel like a big motor. A 500 hp turbo gasser will drink as much fuel when pulling as a larger motor non turbo'd. .
That is true of a traditional turbo setup. But the Ford lineup of twin-turbos using higher compression and a leaner burn, which is allowed by direct injection. So far all of the cars the Ecoboost has gone into gets the same or better fuel economy than the standard non-turbo motors which are the same size. I agree that won't hold true when towing, but it will still be a more efficient motor, and allow better fuel economy when not towing which for most is the majority of the time.
The Eco Boost is a direct injection gasoline engine, (like a diesel, the fuel injects at the top of the compression stroke) so it injects the fuel directly into the cylinder just when needed, no fuel is in the engine during the compression stroke, so pre-ignition (pinging on regular fuel) is impossible. The turbocharger enhances power production, while the engine displacement can be much less for a given amount of HP, so there is much less friction in the rings, cylinder walls, and rotating weight in the pistons, ect. And higher RPM is OK with the tiny pistons and such a short stroke.
The twin turbo Taurus should prove to be more fuel efficient if you can keep from speeding in it, and avoid jack rabbit starts. However . . . It is fun to drive, and it is very quick with all wheel drive it will get out of it's own way when you press hard on the go pedal! They should start to use these as Police Cruisers, and they will do 120 easy.
There is talk about the 3.5 L V6 turbocharged direct injection engine now being used in the Taurus SHO making it into the F-150 as a regular production option, with a large radiator, because it is expected to produce 200 HP all day long, and will need that much cooling. This is expected to achieve great fuel economy as well as be a much lighter engine package. The only major problem is the transmission holding together with 300+ HP. That should be solved with the new 6 speed, it will handle the 300+ HP easy.
Even my Edge with 262 HP was pulling some 6% grades at 110 MPH recently, in 5th gear. Still could have gone faster, but I understand that the highway patrol is not very understanding. Going over 100 usually means a trip to the local jail. It would be interesting to try it out on a closed track someday. But higher speed rated tires are needed to exceed 100 MPH for a long distance.
Good Luck,
Fred.
* This post was
edited 11/04/09 01:18am by Golden_HVAC *
|
|
