raysalmon
Colorado
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Joined: 07/28/2009
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Hi Guys,
If anyone has done a coolant flush on a 99 HR Navigator (or similar model) or is familiar with how that system operates, please send me a PM. I have some questions.
Ray
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DeweyClawson
Enon Valley, PA
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Joined: 09/22/2007
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Ask your questions here so the rest of us can learn from the responses!!!!
The fool learns from his own mistakes.
It is the wise man who learns from the mistakes of others.
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caymann
NH
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Joined: 09/15/2002
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raysalmon wrote:Hi Guys,
If anyone has done a coolant flush on a 99 HR Navigator (or similar model) or is familiar with how that system operates, please send me a PM. I have some questions.
Ray
I probably have the same chassis as you do (ISM500, RR10S chassis, 43'long, 36qts coolant). Let us know your question.
Also there has been detailed posts on this subject by wolfe10
with step by step instructions.
Basically, run engine and turn on dash heater.
drain coolant through the radiator drain cock.
** make sure to dispose it properly
**replace any bad hoses.
(optional) change thermostat if needed
replace coolant filter (if equipped) with new one
*** if changing to OAT based coolant, make sure filter has zero SCA
pour distill water through overflow tank
run engine again with dash heater on
drain distill water
**repeat the distill water process until clean water drains out.
pour new coolant through overflow tank
The entire job takes couple of hrs.
I used Finalcharge OAT based coolant (6yrs change interval)
from Walmart (36 qts=$90), a 0 SCA Fleetguard coolant filter ($5),
distill water (@83c per gallon), two 5 ga bucket for coolant disposal from home depot($10). so a total of $115 (parts) + 2hrs of my labor
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wolfe10
Texas
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Here is a copy of changing coolant that I wrote for the Caterpillar RV Engine Owners Club Newsletter. And no difference Cat vs Cummins:
Cooling System 101
I just changed out my coolant to Caterpillar ELC and replaced all water hoses and belts. Thought I would share the experience.
To my knowledge no chassis/coach maker is using ELC—so all are “low silicate coolant for diesels” with included or added SCA. Coolant needs to be changed per manufacturer’s instructions (usually every 3 years). Additionally the SCA, pH and freeze point need to be checked on regular intervals using SCA test strips and SCA added as needed. The test strips are inexpensive and easy to use (we check the SCA concentration in all coaches at Cat RV Club Rallies). When either the time lapses (time starts when coolant installed in cooling system, NOT when purchased) or testing reveals an out-of-line conditions like pH or freeze point, it is time to change it. You can avoid all the testing and SCA adding, and go to 6 year change intervals by going to Caterpillar ELC and get better cooling system protection as well. Whichever coolant you choose, most of the steps are the same. The job is reasonably time consuming TO DO RIGHT, but low-tech.
Turn dash heater to full hot for the rest of the procedure—fan off. With the engine cold or at least cool, drain coolant. On some, there is a drain cock. On others, pull the lower radiator hose. I catch it in 2 Rubbermade 10 gallon storage bin lined with black trash sacks so I do not even get them dirty. At the end of the whole process, use a coffee can and funnel to pour old coolant into new coolant/water containers for recycling. Our city maintenance shop recycles coolant for free.
Refill cooling system with tap water. IMPORTANT: Be sure to remove any air lock from the thermostat housing. Some systems have a hose set up for this—on ours I just loosen the coolant line to the air pump and bleed the air out. Allow engine to warm up (using the cruise control to select idle speed of 1,000-1,100 speeds this up). Run for about 10 minutes at regular temp. If the temp gauge does not rise as normal, you likely have an air block and need to bleed the thermostat housing. Allow engine to cool 20-30 minutes and drain again. Repeat until the color is clear.
At this point, if this is the first coolant change on a 2-3 year old coach and you are not changing coolant brands/types, skip right to “Last rinse”. For older systems or for switching types of coolant, add a Cooling System Cleaner such as Cat Fast Acting Cooling System Cleaner 4C4611. Follow directions. Run, allow engine to cool, drain and again flush until effluent is clear. The flushing is markedly sped up by pulling off the heater hose (usually 5/8 to ¾” lines going to dash heater/motor-aid water heater, etc from the water pump. Put a hose nozzle in the hose and let it run until what comes out is clear. Run the engine to temperature at least once with tap water.
If your hoses are over 3-4 years old, this is a good time to change them as well (before last rinse). Same for thermostat(s).
Last Rinse is with distilled water. At $.62/gal at Walmart, it is silly to skip this step and leave your system full of high-mineral content water (there will be several gallons of residual water that you can not easily remove). Run engine for 10 minutes after getting to operating temperature. Cool and drain. Also drain and flush your coolant overflow container and refill with new coolant/distilled water.
Add the proper amount of Coolant CONCENTRATE (NOT PRE-DILUTE) to make 50% of cooling system capacity. My cooling system is 18 gallons, so I added 9 gallons of Caterpillar ELC CONCENTRATE (119-5150) (plus one for overflow container). Top off with distilled water to achieve your 50/50 mixture.
This is also a good time to clean the OUTSIDE of the radiator/after-cooler whether you have rear or side radiator. On rear radiator, most if the debris will be on the FRONT of the after-cooler (accessed from under the bed). On side radiators, most debris is on the outside of the after-cooler (side of coach). If it is just dirt, a hose and regular nozzle is all you need. If greasy or oily, use Joy liquid (dish washing detergent) in a spray bottle. Be SURE to rinse it off completely. You need to insure that the perimeter is as clean as the center. Ya, I know it is easier to see the center, but the fan blades "sling" the dirt to the perimeter.
Check belts while you are in there.
Brett Wolfe
1993 Foretravel 36' U-240
Cat 3116, Allison 3060
Caterpillar RV Engine Owner's Club: www.catrvclub.org
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ShapeShifter
Buffalo, NY
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Joined: 04/03/2007
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wolfe10 wrote:Here is a copy of changing coolant that I wrote for the Caterpillar RV Engine Owners Club Newsletter. And no difference Cat vs Cummins:
Nice writeup! I have a couple questions...
You say no different between Cat and Cummins. Does this also apply to the products (ELC and cleaner?) Use the Cat version, or is it better to use a Cummins equivalent (is there such an equivalent?)
Also, you mention how you capture and re-bottle the initial coolant drain, that's a great tip. What about the multiple water flushes? Do you drain on the ground, or what? Does the flush water still contain a significant amount of coolant, especially on the first flush?
2007 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 40PDQ
400 ISL Cummins/Allison
2002 Chevy Avalanche toad
Inside: Him, Her, and a pack of little furballs...
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raysalmon
Colorado
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Joined: 07/28/2009
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Thanks for the help...there's still something not quite right...
I drained the system after running the engine up to temperature again and the rest of the coolant came out through the radiator drain. I drained about 18 or so gallons total, so I'm thinking most of it is out. I then FINALLY managed to get the coolant filter off and replaced.
I went to put the new stuff in and managed to get 9.5 gallons in before it started filling the overflow tank. I ran the engine up again to 85-88C where it seemed to stay after going for a short drive and leaving it idle for several minutes after that. I expected the radiator thermovalve would have opened, draining the remainder of the fluid in the overflow tank allowing me to put the rest of the coolant in. The fluid level had not budged.
The bottom 1/4 of my raditor was mildly warm. The top was cold. I opened the drain valve on the bottom of the radiator to see what was there and BLUE coolant came out (which is what I was putting in - Fleetguard ES Compleat).
So I'm a little confused. It appears coolant is getting to my radiator because it is draining the same stuff I put in, but the temperature stays at 88C and it won't take anymore fluid.
Am I not putting enough load on the engine to get the radiator valves all the way open? Do I need to go climb a hill or something? Is my thermostat bad? I think I'm going to replace the thermostat anyway. (I know I should have done it when it was drained but I'll make a little mess and change it now.)
Ray
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