|
|
| Travel Trailers Related Tips |
|
|
|
Wes Tausend
Bismarck, ND
Full Member
Joined: 12/04/2008
View Profile
 Offline
|
...
The reasons BurbMan stated are good reasons for getting doublepane. Some advertised thermal-pane may just refer to the type glass, such as E-glass, rather than doublepane
That said, I will get on my soapbox (again) about misunderstandings regarding condensation in TT's and ordinary homes. I have seen many otherwise excellent home improvement shows on TV that even get it wrong.
A lot of folks tend to center on window condensation and it is true that if enough water collects on windows and runs down, it will damage wall surfaces. But if one were to eliminate some of the window condensation by presenting a warmer insulated glass surface, one should really, really ask, "Where is the water going now"?
It would not be unusual for a consumer that desires "better" windows to also lean towards a TT with a Filon exterior. Some advantages are greater resistance to minor denting, a clean look and a significantly tighter seal against outside air penetration.
It is this tighter seal that may present a new problem not thoroughly thought out by TT manufacturers. Not that they would build a product without forethought ...right? This problem doesn't exist on ancient leaky aluminum siding for obvious reasons. It is relatively new to the industry.
The fiberglass filon exterior is a thin equivalent of a boat hull. The resin barrior is so resistant to, not only air, but water vapor, that I believe(?) a lack of vapor control is the cause of "bubbling", a condition where the filon siding breaks loose its glued bond and visibly lifts away from the TT wall framing. Humidity, in the form of vapor, condenses and collects most rapidly when it is cool outside. It breaks Filon loose when the morning sun comes out.
Another example of this same principle once existed on our common stick homes. In the past, many homes were painted with oil base paints before latex (which breathes by the way) was used. Humidity, caused by occupants, traveled through the exterior walls, ran into the resistant barrior of the oil paint film and accumulated in the wood siding very directly beneath.
As soon as the sun came out, vapor pressure began to build immediately. The vapor was unable to backtrack towards the home interior quickly enough. The result was the paint bubbled. The mild vapor pressure lifted the paint. The process can be very strong and a more violent version is popcorn. Corn pops because when the kernal is heated, the trapped internal moisture has nowhere else to go. It is also the same principle that drove a piston in a steam engine ...on very powerful locomotives. It is the largest component of the hot expanding gas in our tow vehicle engines. Vapor pressure.
A change in the way our northern stick homes are now built (if done properly) has helped immensely, but, since homes have been sealed better after the first energy crisis in 1974, there was a long hard learning curve. Now the TT industry must learn.
New homes now have a plastic vapor barrior directly beneath the gypsum wall board, usually at least 6 mil thick. The exterior of homes is often wrapped in Dupont Tyvek (or similar) right beneath the siding. The Tyvek resists air movement but allows vapor to readily transmit to the outside atmosphere. One could use plastic, but that would not breathe and therefore humidity woulld be trapped inside the wall cavity ...not good ...as happens currently in Filon covered TT's. The Tyvek works similar to Gore-Tex, stopping cold air from infiltrating, yet breathing unwanted moisture away.
What can we do about vapor control in our TT's in cold weather? Well condensation on windows is just a friendly cue that the problem exists. Ventilation is paramount. Or alternatively, one can install a dehumidifier and contine to breathe stale, but drier air. Another solution, not too practical, would be to not just plastic over the windows, but line the entire interior of the outside walls with a plastic vapor barrior. This might even make sense in extreme extended winter camping conditions. Without ventilation, it would get like a sauna inside ...but it wouldn't let moisture inside the walls as easily. You can bet the Space Station is accounting for this, talk about extreme camping.
Food for thought.
Wes
...
- 2000 Excursion V-10 - 1995 Coachmen Catalina 280RK, 5091# tare
- Hensley Arrow pending - McKesh mirrors - Champion 4000w/3500w gen
- 1994 Mazda B4000 1/2 ton, 4.0L V6, 3.73, 125"wb
- 1978 Pace Arrow 25' Motorhome, GM 3500 chassis 454cu.in
...
|
mecreature
Indianapolis, IN
Senior Member
Joined: 09/27/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
Great explanation Wes..
|
Fisherguy
BC Canada
Full Member
Joined: 07/31/2003
View Profile
|
Ventilation is paramount, okay, so when it's cold outside and the furnace is coming on all the time what we wanna do is open 2 or 3 windows to reduce the condenstation?
I'd like to know what winter campers do, you know the skiers would come in every noght with all their wet gear and turn the heat on, must be drippin then.
06 Dodge Ram 3500 Cummins 6 spd std with a few mods.
2007 Komfort 274S
|
BurbMan
Long Island, NY
Senior Member
Joined: 09/20/2001
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
|
I just keep the roof vent cracked about 1/2". That gives good vapor ventilation without freezing you out.
|
dmax lover
Portland,Oregon, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 08/27/2005
View Profile
|
You purchased the camper in Washington State and the transaction is covered by the laws in that state. In Washington State, the misrepresentation of the product may have violated washington state law. Specifically RCW 19.86.020 :
"Unfair methods of competition and unfair or deceptive acts or practices in the conduct of any trade or commerce are hereby declared unlawful."
I am not sure which law it is covered under - but I am sure the misrepresentation is a violation of State Law. Contact the Washington State Attorney General or pay a few bucks to a lawyer in spokane to represent you - you should be entitled to a complete refund.
On the flipside - all contracts in Washington State are written and not verbal - but you have written e-mails mis-representing the product, so you may be "covered".
I would start by contacting the Washington State Attorney General's Office :
http://www.atg.wa.gov/SafeguardingConsumers/default.aspx
jeff
2005 Chevrolet Duramax 3500 SRW Crewcab Longbed (KYB Monomax Shocks, Michelins,Pacbrake Airbags,Hellwig Rear Swaybar)
2006 Northern Lite 9.6 Classic (Torklifts & fastguns)
|
|
|
JTCR
Central Mass
Senior Member
Joined: 03/19/2007
View Profile
|
Most TT don't come with them and don't offer it as an option. My trailer offered them as a 1250.00 option which I got and do not regret. The windows are built better than single Paine and let more air in when opened fully. As other posters have said they are quieter plus no condensation on inside windows. I will get them on my next new trailer also.
2004 GMC 1500 4x4 Extended cab short bed 5.3 3.73
2007.5 Jayco 328RLS
|
Fisherguy
BC Canada
Full Member
Joined: 07/31/2003
View Profile
|
A 4th person from the dealer called, they're giving us a discount on the price so I guess we're getting it, I still have a bad taste in my mouth about the whole thing though.
We may try to flip it when we get it home and look for what we really want, we'll see. It's a nice trailer, other than the windows that is...
Thanks for all the advice
Will
|
BurbMan
Long Island, NY
Senior Member
Joined: 09/20/2001
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
|
Good luck "flipping it" in today's market.
|
dmax lover
Portland,Oregon, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 08/27/2005
View Profile
|
FYI - The manufacturer that makes thermal pane windows for my Northern Lite Truck Camper is located in B.C. Canada.
http://www.sunviewindustries.ca/
With the economy as it is - maybe you can retrofit some thermal pane windows in?
Given the legal situation - I would get what they represented to you, a camper with double pane windows, or get my money back.
Jeff
|
coolbreeze01
Redding, Ca
Senior Member
Joined: 08/24/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
If the deal is good enough to flip it in Canada, I would buy it and try it. What the heck? Once you are in the game, then plenty of time to shop.
2008 Dodge 3500 CTD LB SRW 4X4 6-Speed Auto
P3 Blue Ox Sway Pro
2007 Komfort 212
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
