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RE: Why the Payoad Disparity?
There is no publicly available information that gives us the tools to answer all points implicit in your question.
Inertia has to be part of every safety formula.
How does one stop a specific mass moving at specified speed?
Axle weights?
Stay within the manufacturer's recommended ratings whenever possible.
I've seen posts before that said the individual axle's rating considers the brakes to stop the weight the axle is carrying. If that's really the case stopping isn't the problem. Also for some brands I don't think the brakes are even different between 3/4t, 1t SRW and 1t DRW models, certainly not by any significant amount. That makes the 3/4t the "safest" from a braking point of view.
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wnjj
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11/19/09 10:15am |
Truck Campers
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RE: Why the Payoad Disparity?
Since GM's 3/4 and 1-tons use the same brakes and axle parts but have a 700# difference in rating, I don't think that is always true. I'm guessing that many of Ford's various GVWRs available on the same basic truck use the same components too. The "same payload no matter the options" marketing thing.
The OP asked brand vs. brand. All of them have overlap within the 3/4 ton vs. 1 ton for quite a few parts. In most cases the difference is only springs and tires between a 3/4 ton and a 1 ton.
But if you look at brand vs. brand, there is a huge gap between Chevy vs. Dodge and Ford. A DRW Chevy has a lower GVWR than a SRW F350.
The Fords are a bit heaver than Dodge in curb weight and have a bit higher GVWR, with pretty much matched cargo capacities.
I realized what the OP asked and addressed that in the part of my post you didn't quote. I was simply pointing out the large disconnect that exists between setting GVWR and how "beefy" the truck was built. One does not necessarily lead to the other. The point is the GVWR's are set by many factors other than just the strength of the components. Higher GVWR does not in itself guarantee a stronger, longer lasting, better performing truck. That all depends on how much extra margin the individual manufacturers built in to their specs and how much the marketing folks got involved.
You compared the Ford and Chevy GVWR but the Ford and Dodge payload. The Ford SRW GVWR is rated higher than the Chevy DRW but Fords weigh quite a bit more so the payload isn't necessarily higher. For example the SRW Ford ends up with ~400 lbs of payload over a Chevy SRW once you subtract the curb weight despite an 1100 lb higher GVWR. Still a decent difference in payload but not a deal breaker.
Like others above have said you need GVWR and the empty weight of the truck with the options you want before you have the whole picture.
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wnjj
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11/18/09 11:00pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Why the Payoad Disparity?
I do not believe they are calculating them differently. If you start putting parts side by side, the one with 800 lbs more rating uses a bit beefier parts. This applies to brakes, axle parts and so on.
Since GM's 3/4 and 1-tons use the same brakes and axle parts but have a 700# difference in rating, I don't think that is always true. I'm guessing that many of Ford's various GVWRs available on the same basic truck use the same components too. The "same payload no matter the options" marketing thing.
Sometimes they just change a few simple parts like tires and springs and make different ratings.
Brand to brand, is the higher-rated truck really beefier (at its core) or did that manufacturer decide to bolt on bigger springs and tires and rate it more agressively?
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wnjj
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11/18/09 07:13pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Side enrty vs Back entry ?
There's some discussion in this thread.
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wnjj
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11/18/09 02:21pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: A few questions on Dualies
.... and also add oversized tail pipe extensions trying to make their system look like the big boys?
Like these guys?
http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/29010387/0908dp_03_z+diesel_power_challenge_2009+exhaust_stack.jpg
http://cache.autoanything.com/images/products/med/exhaust_systems/mbrp_smokers_stack_exhaust.jpg
http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/9108041/0709dp_06_z+2000_dodge_ram_2500_cummins+mufflers.jpg
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wnjj
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11/17/09 03:19pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: A few questions on Dualies
"I can tell any TC I would get (dry bath and maybe a slide) would be 3000+ lbs, probably more like 4000+."
Does anyone think a 4000+ pound camper, then loaded up with other gear and stuff (probably ending up 5000 pounds or so) would be GOOD on an SRW?
I doubt many will think a SRW is good in that case but since the OP is asking about how a DRW will work as a daily driver clearly his decision has some room and he may have to reconsider. If his camper is absolutely going to be that heavy there's no point in asking about a dually, he just needs one.
Anyway, Padlin, this is the toughest part (or at least most argued), and one you'll hear all sorts of answers for.....it IS hard to say. I have had a 2500 SRW (quite modified) carrying a 3500 pound of camper&gear and now a dually 4500 truck carrying about 6500 pounds of camper&gear. I much prefer what I have now and it's a lot safer...I can stop faster, climb hills faster, turn harder and drive straighter in the winds. My current rig is waaaaay easier to drive than my old one. It's hard for me to identify the exact break between SRW and DRW territory (kind of like pornography - you know it when you see it!).....but I'd tend to say for me personally it would probably be around 4000 pounds of load (gear and camper) but I would still prefer the DRW now (having had one) even if I had a bit less than that - because I just don't see significant enough drawbacks for the DRW. If I wanted to off-road a lot, I'd still have a 3500 SRW even with a light pop-up camper - a rig something like DonCurley's.
I'd much prefer your current setup to your old one too. You do have to admit that your comparison is a bit like apples to oranges. You went from a 2500 to a 4500. The DRW came with the territory but much of what you attribute to the improved driveability (going/stopping faster) is because it's simply a much bigger, more capable truck and probably would still be even if you pulled 2 rear tires off. Don't get me wrong, DRW will always be better than SRW when it comes to hauling a large load. The OP is asking what negatives there might be for daily driving. Which leads us to...
"SRW I can manage but how practical is it to use a dually as your daily driver?"
Cost is the only real issue for a daily driver......but it's not much worse than a 3500 SRW. I'd get a cheap commuter car - that's what I do.
I think you're oversimplifying a bit there. If you daily drive a freeway to a large parking lot I'm sure it's fine. There are still real differences with fitting a wider truck around parking lot islands, curbs at corners, drivethroughs, etc. Also think about having to walk past your rear fender to get to your driver's door when you're in a parking spot or bringing a shopping cart up to the cab alongside your truck. Yes it's an incremental difference and it can be overcome but it's only opinion as to whether that's a problem or nuisance for an individual. I often see people say they just take a couple spots or park far away or find a spot they can pull straight into. If I had to constantly plan/work (even a little) to accomodate a daily driver I would probably rethink my choice.
I think the value of threads like these is to point out even the little things the OP didn't think of and let him decide whether he can live with it. Generally speaking, SRW owners tend to exaggerate the downsides of DRW and DRW owners often try to say there's no downside at all.
One other minor downside to daily driving a DRW: You wear out more tires and if you want to run custom wheels rotation may be limited.
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wnjj
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11/17/09 03:10pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: A few questions on Dualies
Parking seems to come up a lot in these discussions. Without a doubt I can swing into and park in more parking spaces than someone with an SRW crew cab. As someone else mentioned, the mirrors in their standard (inward) positions are wider than the duals, so as long as my mirrors aren't dragging my fenders aren't either.
Your point about the mirrors is true, but what about backing into a parking spot? I find that with any long wheel base truck it is much easier to back in. In that case the wider rear fenders would be worse and the mirrors aren't in play until the final couple of feet where you're lined up square.
People mention drive-throughs but what about parking lot islands or just normal street corner curbs? While not impossible to drive around you do have to pay closer attention with a wider rearend.
I back into my tight driveway every day, but forwards or backwards doesn't change my point: that the additional length of a crew cab makes tight situations harder than the additional width of a dually. So, if you can get used to a crew cab, a dually is cake. Again, it's 95% mental and 5% physical, just don't forget about that 5%.
I completely agree with what you just wrote. Longer takes getting used to just like wider and it can all be managed. I was only referring to your specific point, "so as long as my mirrors aren't dragging my fenders aren't either". When backing while turning into a parking spot your fenders certainly can hit before your mirrors do and it is more difficult with a wider rearend. (Not to mention the high cholesterol that usually comes with a wider rearend. :))
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wnjj
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11/16/09 09:18pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: A few questions on Dualies
yeah Duallies dont go on sand
But that's flat sand. When I'm talking sand, I'm talking about sand dunes. :)
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wnjj
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11/16/09 08:30pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: A few questions on Dualies
DRW poor performer in snow, off road, sand? This is a common rumor spread by the SRW diehards. Most of my camping is done during the winter, in snow and ice, fire roads and on the sands of Pismo Beach. Driven in near blizzard conditions in the Owens Valley last year, been down steep icy rutted mud/dirt/rock Sierra roads and have yet to find anything to stop me other than tree branches creating a clearance issue for the tall Host on my back.
I think the rumors are about driving in DEEP snow, soft dry sand and serious off road. Places nobody would have their camper onboard. They're talking about when they drive their multi-use truck in those conditions without their camper.
Cutting 4 or 6 fresh tracks in snow or sand is far more difficult than 2. This is very noticable when I tow a snowmobile trailer where its track is wider than my truck or when the backend of the truck isn't tracking the front.
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wnjj
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11/16/09 03:10pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: A few questions on Dualies
Parking seems to come up a lot in these discussions. Without a doubt I can swing into and park in more parking spaces than someone with an SRW crew cab. As someone else mentioned, the mirrors in their standard (inward) positions are wider than the duals, so as long as my mirrors aren't dragging my fenders aren't either.
Your point about the mirrors is true, but what about backing into a parking spot? I find that with any long wheel base truck it is much easier to back in. In that case the wider rear fenders would be worse and the mirrors aren't in play until the final couple of feet where you're lined up square.
People mention drive-throughs but what about parking lot islands or just normal street corner curbs? While not impossible to drive around you do have to pay closer attention with a wider rearend.
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wnjj
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11/16/09 03:05pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Transporting a TC EEEEOOOOWWWW!!!!!
Which one did you purchase a TC or a Pop-up? Either way look at it as an Adventure and enjoy the ride 500 for fuel seems cheap enough.
I'm going to guess he got both: A pop-up TC. At least that's what he was planning on getting.
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wnjj
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11/14/09 02:19pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Rancho's for front?
B-n-B, well stated. If you simply push on the brake pedal, you move weight from the rear axle to the front axle. In my opinion. when you run over the joints on a cement highway, you shift weight on every joint. having adjustable shocks allows you to adjust your shocks to offset the shift.
Wayne
I agree with B-n-B too. Springs support the weight on each axle independently but since the truck frame is rigid, all 4 corners contribute to ride stability. Even though the static weight is almost unchanged on the front unloaded to loaded, the dynamic forces seen by the front are certainly higher. A higher COG in a corner will transfer more weight to the side at the front and rear. Shocks help to resist that transfer. Also consider that the unloaded suspension is designed to allow some rocking that isn't a problem (or really even noticeable) with an empty truck. When you add a tall heavy camper, any rocking is amplified so the suspension (all 4 corners) would be better off "stiffer".
You need to consider the forces applied to the suspension, not just the weight. Weight only translates directly to a force when things are stationary.
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wnjj
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11/12/09 03:13pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Headache (sick) Every Morning
Oh no! It may be too late. The gas has affected his memory, making him repeat himself. ;) :B
But seriously, I hope you get this figured out.
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wnjj
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11/05/09 06:50pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: MPG w/wo camper on board
..........I was hoping someone would post their MPG with a 8.1 , dually with a 4500 pound camper on board ! I'll eventually find a camper to go on my 2003 Chevy 8.1 , 2Wdr. dually ! I'm sure they are out there , somewhere , !lol , jf
I've only checked a couple of times but my 8.1 got ~8.5 with a mix of freeway at 70 and 2-lanes at 60. Pulling a 2500# trailer dropped it to ~8. It's 4x4, not a dually and hauling a 4000 camper. You'll probably be close to that. I have 4.10 gears but I think that's all you could get with the 8.1 unless it was a 3/4 ton.
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wnjj
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11/04/09 04:02pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Need help! Anybody here near Meridian/Boise, ID?
Also, this would need to be stored for a few months, likely till spring when I can get my truck which is in WI. Any ideas on a reasonably priced lot near you where I don’t have too worry about marauders messing with it? Preferably indoor storage but outside could work if need be.
Maybe the dealer would store it for you for a small fee? Or work it into the deal. It's already there anyway.
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wnjj
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11/03/09 10:04am |
Truck Campers
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RE: New to TCs - Need help in making selection
Off the top of my head...
Rear door advantages:
- No "hole" in the floor over near the door to fall into and more interior floor space.
- No/less rear overhang (if you buy a short enough camper).
- Can reach the ladder from inside the camper. We hang our bottle/can and diaper bags out there.
- Slightly closer to driver's seat. You'll notice this if you stop to get something or check on something, particularly if you have a trailer hitch to climb over to reach the passenger side.
Side door advantages:
- Curbside door leads to curb in town.
- Unique floorplans with rear couches, beds, etc.
- Trailer hitch doesn't interfere with the door.
- No easy view into whole camper from outside.
- Less external steps needed.
- Faces most camp spots best since they're designed for side-door RV's.
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wnjj
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11/02/09 07:19pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: Any overhang issues out there?
I think it turned out to be his fuel filter.
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wnjj
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10/31/09 02:15pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: When Animals Attack!
.......complain to the OP or the moderator.........
In this case, it's the same person. :B
Now, let me tell you about the time I was attached by a pack of wild coyotes in the shower of our truck camper............... :)
Brad
Yep. Hence my apparently too subtle, "whichever comes first" comment and :).
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wnjj
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10/30/09 11:14pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: When Animals Attack!
In my opinion this isn't a specific truck camper related thread, and probably should be moved to another section of the forum.
Neither are ones about water pumps, windows, generators and practically everything else except jacks but there's nothing wrong with having them here. I agree that camper people tend to get out a bit more than other RV types so it's a decent fit. If the thread were somewhere else I probably wouldn't even have seen it.
If it bothers you that much complain to the OP or the moderator, whichever comes first :) or just skip the thread.
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wnjj
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10/30/09 05:03pm |
Truck Campers
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RE: When Animals Attack!
We have LOTS of coyotes around me, but they're always skittish. I often watch a pack hunting moles, gophers and mice in my or my neighbors fields while having breakfast. They're well within rifle range, but so long as they're not taking stock I figure it's better to have them eating the varmints. We have goats in the field closest to the house, but they always stay farther away than that.
We've lost 2 cats in the past couple of years...almost certainly to coyotes. If I ever have one in my sights it's going to get shot. They may be "natural" animals but their populations are artificially inflated by living off humans' pets, livestock and trash. Besides, our cats catch plenty of mice, voles, moles and gophers.
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wnjj
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10/29/09 12:15pm |
Truck Campers
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