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RE: Class C rocks left to right
Ok, so I got the alignment done, and it really helped the "darting" issue from left to right. Now, it just seems when there is a strong side wind and i'm crusing down the freeway, that it really pushes the coach around and makes steering difficult. My Winnebago is a 2006 and has about 60,000 miles so would the heavy duty Bilstien shocks be a good solution to this issue? I would imagine that the stock shock are probably worn out and may be my main problem...
Thanks.
Three things (at least) can help - but realize that you are now fighting a design issue as you are driving what amounts to a big box. More than likely, you have a long overhang behind the rear wheels, which causes a lot of the "pushed around" feeling in windy conditions or when a semi-trailer passes you.
An improved steering stabilizer (such as the Safe-T-Plus) can help to keep you pointed straight down the road. Lots of folks on this site have reported really good results doing this. (All the usual disclaimers apply - YMMV, etc. :))
Better shocks will likely help.
Air Tabs help this, too, because they change the airflow around the rear end cap, which means you get pushed around less by winds and passing trucks.
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Westronics
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05/27/09 09:46am |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: My turn to wine about mpg (follow up observation)
Hi Dave,
You should have put a 5.9 Cummins in that! Mine gets better mileage by doing nothing! 8-)Hmm, I tried running the old 454 on diesel fuel. I got great mileage walking back to the gas station to buy a gas can to fill the aux tank with gasoline :B. Actually now understanding that the green handle means diesel fuel has totally destroyed that idea...
The engine is spect to run maximum torque at 2800. I assume the cam is really set up for that. The specified toque curve with FI is very flat, but you can feel a serious difference as it hits 2500 rpm. I did eventually figure out what the lobe centers were. I can't remember the exact number now, but I do remember they were fairly wide. I've thought about playing with the cam timing, I did that with a car once and went from 10 mpg to 15 mpg. I just hate to break into something that isn't broke. Its like there are now oil leaks, if I pull the timing cover, I might introduce one.
Lyle, I'm not sure how much problem you will have with gearing. You have long intake runners which will help in the low end, so I think your going to get away with it.
Chuck, Although I would support the idea of air tabs, I'm not sure if the design would apply to a Revcon. The rear end is very rounded off, so it has totally different characteristics than the square box that air tabs were designed to help.
Really the whole crux of the original post is that so many things have not resulted in what I expected, even though as many of you all remember when I did this, I analyzed this whole thing to death. Its a learning experience that I don't really mind, but so many things have resulted in the exact opposite of what was expected.
Just for grins, I'll give a quick review:
1) Newer engine - expected tiny increase in efficiency - not
2) Multiport FI - expected a 1+ mpg increase in efficiency - not yet
3) Taller gearing - expected some increase in efficiency - none
4) Small cool air tuned intake tubes - should help low end over stock air cleaner - not - actually is worse off the line than stock air cleaner, but tons better in the top end than stock air cleaner.
What we often think we understand - we don't. But if there is any frustration as a result, it all goes away when you stomp on the throttle and it is fun trying ideas here and there.
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Daveinet
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05/06/09 11:56am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: My turn to wine about mpg (follow up observation)
Dave, you know 100 times more about engines, transmissions, and gear ratios than me, so I'm not going to give you any technical advise. However, have you ever thought about changing over to a quality synthetic oil once the motor is fully broken in? Also, friction HP loss can be helped with synthetic transmission fluid. Would you consider adding an air dam up front and air tabs at the back outer walls of your Revcon and at the back of the roof line? Perhaps these modifications along with your Chevy 502 being fully broken in will add or give you a boost in fuel economy. I have a sneaky suspicion that you will figure out a way to increase your fuel economy which in turn will give you an extended cruising range and save money at the same time. Good luck! Chuck.
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bagman
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05/06/09 02:30am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Steering/Ride Stabilzers
Greetings. We own a 31' Jayco Class C, on a Ford chassis, F-450, w/V-10, gas. The tires are 6 months old (only about 5K miles) and are in good shape. We keep them inflated to the recommended 80 lbs., cold...
I hope you mean only the rear tires.
The fronts should be at 65 psi.
That's assuming you are near the maximum rated weight (GVWR/GAWR). If less, you should use the appropriate tire charts to inflate per the carried weight.
You will get some odd handling and tire wear issues if you over-inflate the front tires by 23% (80 psi vs. 65psi).
As to you problem with winds pushing you around:
A certain amount of this is unavoidable due to design issues. You have (likely) a rather long rear overhang.
Anyway, there are some things you can do.
Air tabs may help a little - they change the air flow coming off the rear of your rig.
Others will chime in with lots of advice on steering and suspension changes that may help.
You can also do a search for "steering" and find a lot of information that may help.
Good luck witrh this tricky problem.
Oh, and one more thing. Staying off the roads in high winds is the right thing to do.
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Westronics
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04/05/09 11:16am |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Kodiak 5500 Front Sway Bar
Correct, the goodyear tires were a handful to steer. The tires I put on (2K+) were Michelins and they made a world of difference. I installed the front sway today and you would not believe the difference it made. Hope to have time Monday to install the rear sway bar when it arrives. I am of the opinion that my unit should never have left the factory with it handling like it did. So far I am out over 6K in saw-mill dollars to make a MH handle the way it should have handeled from the get-go. It can be placed on my shoulders as I could have walked out any time. I am paying the piper for not taking due care. I do like the MH and I do like the way it handles now but if I had known how inadequate it was before I bought it would still be on the dealers lot. The way it was on the lot the unit could not be used for it's intended purposes. And that is a nice pleasent driving machine that did not wear you out driving. I was so bushed on my first shake down cruise I did not enjoy the the trip at all. So it is OK now as I have bit the bullet and realized I did not get what I paid for and what all their broshears and other huplala were just words that did not pass my test of reliable information.
Track bar front
Track bar rear
Steering safety strut, (safety plus)
4 New bilstein shocks,
front Roadmaster sway bar,
rear Roadmaster sway bar.
Air Tabs - my option,
6 new Michelin tires plus 1 Michelin spare
regards,bumpus4
See ya'll at The Ralley
And I may add rear air bags later.
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bumpus4
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04/04/09 10:35pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: Kodiak 5500 Front Sway Bar
My 35gs has the bar but I think all it doe's is tie the frame together. My mechanic who installed the steering stabilizer was surprised to see it and said he didnot know the purpose. I am in process of installing the front sway bar by Roadmaster and hope this helps.
The steering on this new unit was sloopy to say the least so I installed the steering stab, front trac bar, rear trac bar and will install a rear sway bar when it comes in Monday. I am also having the front end alighned this coming Monday. I do have a popping sound coming from the front and will recheck the torque value. If you have rubber or other type inserts they can not be installed too tight. They need room to do what they are supposed to do.
Now for the kicker ----- I had all 6 tires from Goodyear r@r with Michelins and I was shocked as to how well the unit now drives. Telling DW on way to tire shop unit was all over the road but coming back from the tire shop steering was a one hand operation. It rode smoother, steered easier, more responsive to my steering input and virtually was a "NEW" unit as far as the drivability was concerned. Michelins forever.
My Scan Gage II came in today so I'll install it tomorrow alone with the Air Tabs that came in yesterday.
I feel if I am going to drive this unit for 5-6 years I better spend the money up front to get the ride I want.
See ya'll at The Ralley next couple of weeks.
Regards,
Bumpus4
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bumpus4
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04/03/09 09:17pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: 2006 Seneca 35GS Observations
Your article gives me encouragment fo my 35GS seneca.
I like your tow dolleyand am wondering if it is a u-haul. We have a dodge avenger we would like to take to THE RALLEY in a week or so.
I taped some ribbon to the center and equal distance left and right on the slooping hood to check the airflow. Most of the wind comes up the hood and is deflected left and right away and downward off the hood. I am going to try some air tabs to disrupt airflow sailing around the windscreen and and doors.
The convex mirror isa good idea.
thanks for sharing.
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bumpus4
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03/27/09 12:50pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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RE: RV Fuel Mileage Claims
I spent over $3000 on this stuff...I use to get 12-13 mpg and now I get 12-13 mpg.
Synthetic oil
Magnets on the fuel lines
Different air intakes
Different exhaust systems
Tornadoes 3
Water injection systems
Air tabs/air foils
Different programming for ECM's
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downtheroad
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02/13/09 03:34pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Where can I get a rear wing spoiler for my motorhome?
IMHO it's impossible to isolate one variable (Air-Tabs) when other driving conditions can vary greatly, even when maintaining the cruise speed. The only meaningful comparison I have is between two similar cross country trips at the same time of the year. Comparing the two trip avg mpg's, the trip with Air-Tabs was better by something less than 1 mpg.
Will the saving in fuel cost pay for the Air-Tabs given my annual mileage? I doubt it. But the improvement in stability with less spray in our wake was worth it. Please don't ask me to prove it.
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The Beave
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02/13/09 02:43pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RV Fuel Mileage Claims
This is all so laughable, it is entertaining. Rv'ers are so willing to spend their hard earned money on questionable gains. Starting with the basics:
Synthetic oil usage 3 or 4% claims
Magnets on the fuel lines 2 to 4% claims
Different air intakes 3 or 4% claims
Different exhaust systems 3 or 4% claims
Tornadoes 3 or 4% claims
Water injection systems 3 or 4% claims
Air tabs/air foils 3 or 4% claims.
Different programming for ECM's 1 to 3% claims.
The fine print for all of these: Your results may vary. NO GUARANTEES!
There are many more claims for fuel mileage improvement than Carter has pills for what ails you.
Unless you have the kind of equipment necessary to make all the calculations necessary, which is highly unlikely, as the cost for such equipment would be prohibitive, your claims are nothing more than feel good claims. For example: Wind velocity and direction, ambient temperatures, ambient humidity, atmospheric pressures, vehicular speeds, tire pressures, some kind of topography measuring equipment, there is probably more equipment necessary than I can even imagine that would be necessary. People making claims like I have records going back X years and Y miles, so what, all that means is that you are suffering from an obsessive disorder in regards to your record keeping.
Like I said, it is all laughable. Definitely entertaining, and I have to thank all of you that make these absurd mileage claim gains. Keep it up, it all makes me laugh.:B:B:B
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topflite51
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02/13/09 01:22pm |
General RVing Issues
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RE: Where can I get a rear wing spoiler for my motorhome?
We have two of the extended camping family that have the air tabs. Both sing the praises of the rear end staying clean and improved stability in cross winds or truck passing. As to any mileage gain neither keeps good enough records to rsee if tabs are of any help.
We also have one with the "spoiler" type. It works but the cleanliness effect decreases as the distance from the spoiler increases.
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mike4947
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02/13/09 10:42am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Where can I get a rear wing spoiler for my motorhome?
I think the issue here, is one of expectations.
If you are looking for a device to make a HUGE difference, forget it. They will NOT make your RV leap tall buildings at a single bound.
We are pleased with the Air-tabs. Our fuel MPG is up .3 MPG since fitting them (not much, but measurable). We log every gallon that goes in and have logged 15,000 miles since fitting them.
More importantly, in a cross wind, the coach is less sensitive to strong gusts/passing 18 wheelers.
The main negatives when Air-tabs are discussed is from people who don't like their appearance, rather than the physical results.
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wolfe10
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02/13/09 10:24am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Where can I get a rear wing spoiler for my motorhome?
I dunno....I'm not sure if dirt on the back of my coach looks worse than Air Tabs. I've seen them on a coach and they are just plain ugly IMHO, but that's just me. The spoiler might not look bad though.
Craig
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Craig P.
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02/13/09 10:21am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Where can I get a rear wing spoiler for my motorhome?
Many of the new school buses in my area have these "rear wing spoilers" on them and the drivers are singing praises about how they keep the back of the bus cleaner. See the bottom pic on the following link:http://www.schoolbuscentral.com/gallery/updates/jul06/17_07ce_mesub.htm. The spoiler keeps the rear windows and lights clear of dirt, snow and ice. Popular option here in the north country. Don't know if it does anything for handling.
These are not Air Tabs, don't look like Air Tabs, and don't function as Air Tabs claim to function. But they might be just as good when you stop to think about it.
Actually, that's more like what I was talking about, but I haven't been able to locate anything like that either.
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pianodan
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02/13/09 09:58am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Where can I get a rear wing spoiler for my motorhome?
Many of the new school buses in my area have these "rear wing spoilers" on them and the drivers are singing praises about how they keep the back of the bus cleaner. See the bottom pic on the following link:http://www.schoolbuscentral.com/gallery/updates/jul06/17_07ce_mesub.htm. The spoiler keeps the rear windows and lights clear of dirt, snow and ice. Popular option here in the north country. Don't know if it does anything for handling.
These are not Air Tabs, don't look like Air Tabs, and don't function as Air Tabs claim to function. But they might be just as good when you stop to think about it.
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wny_pat
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02/13/09 09:54am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Where can I get a rear wing spoiler for my motorhome?
A second for Air-Tabs! MPG increase, under 1 mpg but appreciated, better stability and less dirt and spray behind rig so cleaner for all.
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The Beave
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02/13/09 07:54am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Improving fuel mileage
I used a very expensive K&N type air filter on our 3126 Cat for a couple years and did not experience any measurable increase in mpg. Took if off because I was concerned with independent tests that demonstrates more dirt passed with the K&N and similar filters.
We did gain a little mpg with the Air-Tabs, about 1 mpg or less compared to similar trips without. Biggest improvement was in stability.
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The Beave
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01/25/09 06:32pm |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: Improving fuel mileage
You could change all your lubricants to synthetic. Add air-tabs, and Ultra-Power the engine computer. That should give you an extra 1.5-2.0 MPG. Bagman.
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bagman
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01/25/09 01:12am |
Class A Motorhomes
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RE: I5 Grapevine - clear sailing?
Had trouble getting the WiFi connection, so this is too late for anyone going over the Grapevine.
It probably would have been OK on the 26th. Carry chains warning, 40% chance of more snow. It was the wind and high profile warning that nudged us to 101N.
We ran up thru LA on I5, cutover to 101, then on up the coast to Paso Robles. Tail end of the last storm front provided gusting winds up to about Sata Maria. Very clear day, with snow in the mountains, and islands off the coast - that you could actually see...
Again a positive vote for the Air Tabs - I could feel the shifting winds, but felt very stable and much less 'twitchy' with the Air Tabs.
Cold night in Paso Robles last night, 27 with several Wine Country RV campers with frozen water hoses...
Best to all, be safe,
Smitty
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Gsmitty77
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12/27/08 10:33am |
Roads and Routes
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RE: Air Tabs
A year or two ago, I saw a FedEx Sprinter van with a set. It was the first FedEx 'long tall' 2nd generation Sprinter I'd seen. It had them up the sides and across the top at the rear. Since then, I've seen a few similar FedEx Sprinters, but none with the Air Tabs. My conclusion is that they tried them and didn't find them worthwhile.
IF (and I say if) they are useful on a van it sure isn't going to be at the speeds a city delivery vehicle operates. That is absolutely the wrong application.
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Dakzuki
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12/21/08 07:05pm |
Class C Motorhomes
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