timsrv wrote: It's been my observation that most refers that break boilers run mostly on electric. However, according to Dometic, a flame needs to be present for it to go up in flames. So for that reason, it's safer to limit refer operation to electric (running it exclusively on electric increases the chance of breakage, but limits the chance of fire).
It's my understanding that the ones that have burned developed stress patterns while running on electric, then finally broke while running on gas. Stress patterns are the areas that become overworked as a result of expansion and contraction. Once these patterns are set, these overworked areas will continue to flex more regardless of operation mode(and BTW there's no practical way to tell if you have stress patterns or not). So even if you stopped running it on electric and started using it on gas only, these stressed areas will still flex more then the unstressed areas because they are in a weakened state. If your refer has only been run on gas, then it most likely won't have these stress patterns and it's much less likely to break. It's the ones that run all the time on electric that I see failing. Tim
Thank you for the info. I will think about it for a couple of days.First I have to find a dealer to do it which may take more than a few days anyway.
1998 Dodge 1ton DRW 4x4,cummins of course
1998 Cardinal 28rks
My refer has been on for over 6 years I never turn it off. mostly on electric except when on the road I switch to gas. I haven't had any problems at all recently I had to pull the refer to make a repair to the wall beside it everything on the back looked like new. I have allways been told the worst thing was to let them sit and get cold because they will draw moisture and rust.
Yes, your experience is very common. Most units will never develop dangerous stress patterns, but a higher ratio than what we consider normal will. I don't know the exact numbers, but lets say that prior to the recall, maybe .1% of refers failed in this manner (this is a guess). Out of all the recall units, perhaps 10% will end up with cracked boilers (another guess). This means most recalled refers will not fail due to a cracked boiler, but many more than normal will. The odds are very very slim that any of your units will go up in flames. In order for that to happen, a crack needs to occur while running it on gas. In addition to this, the temp needs to be sufficient to make the ammonia flammable, in addition the crack needs to be the correct size to sustain the correct volume of ammonia / hydrogen, and also be directing it into the flame area. If I understand correctly what Dometic has published on the matter, the odds of having your boiler break, then have it be followed by a fire are about .01% (that's one one hundredth of one percent). Of course you have to wonder whether or not they have a biased opinion.
That being said, a risk of fire is still a risk most people don't want to take (no matter how small), and I don't blame them. As stated earlier, the recall kit does nothing to prevent the boiler from breaking. It's only intended to contain a fire should one occur. Still, even with the recall IMO there is still some danger. Hydrogen is an active molecule and it's conceivable it could wick out through the fiber glass in the flue area and burn in another location (not likely, but conceivable). I don't have any hard evidence to back this up, but I have seen hydrogen burn before. Let's just hope the folks at Dometic know what they are doing this time. I say "lets hope" because they obviously dropped the ball on building a safe and reliable cooling core. Tim
Stan47
I have a 2004 fifth wheel. The recall kit is exactly
as you described. It also has the sensor with the wires
running to the control board. The first time we tried
to use the refrigerator after "the fix", it wouldn't
work. Not on electric or gas. The housing behind the
metal shield gets very hot, then a click in the control
board caused by the sensor, and that's it. It will not
light on gas either. I've called Dometic, and been told
if it's out of warranty, it's not covered. I agree with
you and others, a class action suit sounds good. Can you
tell me why the housing behind the shield is getting hot
when we try it on electricity?
JRK--I hope Tim will jump in here with something definitive, but my suspicion is that when the metal shield was installed, it created an electrical short in the sensor/control board.
Have you approached the repair shop that installed the shield? You may have better luck getting them to fix what they messed up.
Meanwhile, I woud try removing the shield to see whether the fridge still works. If they did something that destroyed the control board, somebody owes you a new control board.
I just called my dealer (General RV in Wayland, MI) to have the "fix" installed - it will cost me no money, and we made an appointment for 1 PM and it will be done in 1/2 hour while I wait. Fortunately, I live nearby, so the fuel expense is minor.
I can't even cruise their showroom in that short period of time....LOL!
I offer this info for those who are told it'll take a day or two.....make your dealer set a time so you can have it done while you wait!
JRK61841 wrote: Stan47
I have a 2004 fifth wheel. The recall kit is exactly
as you described. It also has the sensor with the wires
running to the control board. The first time we tried
to use the refrigerator after "the fix", it wouldn't
work. Not on electric or gas. The housing behind the
metal shield gets very hot, then a click in the control
board caused by the sensor, and that's it. It will not
light on gas either. I've called Dometic, and been told
if it's out of warranty, it's not covered. I agree with
you and others, a class action suit sounds good. Can you
tell me why the housing behind the shield is getting hot
when we try it on electricity?
There are several possibilities here, but the best advice I can give is the same as Stan (take it back to the shop that installed the recall kit). If you don't trust them, then pay somebody else to investigate. I have seen similar problems before (twice) and in both cases there were errors made by the shops installing the recall kit. In both instances, a wire had been pinched by the new sheet metal. In one case, the refer would heat up the boiler and start to cool, but then the sheet metal would expand and short out the pinched wire. These cases were different then yours though because the end result was a blown fuse at the power distribution box. One unit had a bad PC board as well, but since the recall only interrupts incoming DC power to the board, I believe that failure was unrelated.
I'm a little confused about the statement "then a click in the control board caused by the sensor". If you have a boiler over temp condition and the new recall sensor(s) are cutting power, they will not reset on their own. One sensor is a single use thermal link that will only cycle once (like blowing a fuse), the other sensor (riveted to the sheet metal of the flue) is resettable, but needs a person to push the black button in the middle of it to reset. If that sensor ever trips, then chances are your cooling core is toast.
There have been other people on this forum who's refers wouldn't work after the recall, but would start working again when they removed the sheet metal plate (the large flat plate that was added). The only thing I can think of here is maybe the venting was marginal before the recall, and maybe the addition of the kit further obstructed ventilation just enough to create a problem??? I haven't personally encountered that problem yet, so I can only speculate.
As for the gas operation, make sure the gas valve on the back of the refer is turned on (little knurled brass knob with a slot). The slot should be parallel to the direction of flow (perpendicular is off).
The only other thing I might suggest is to inspect your boiler and look for signs of leakage. A dead giveaway would be a fluorescent yellow residue anywhere in, on, or around the recall / flu stack areas. If you find any of this yellow residue, your refer is dead and will either need to be replaced or will need a new cooling core. Tim
Hello RVers... I sent this to timsrv but I thought I would also post to get the opinion of others. I purchased my TT less than 2 months ago (used 2003 model) and I am having issues right off the bat... any info is appreciated.
I am about to purchase a rebuilt core for my Dometic RM2652. I notice that you recommend not going with the rebuilt core but unfortunately finances don't permit me to do otherwise right now. Do you believe there is still a risk of fire with the rebuilt core? Do I need to contact Dometic to complete recall work after I replace the core? If I can't afford to replace the refrigerator, should I just go without a refrigeration until I can afford a replacement?
I have the ammonia smell, yellow residue, and lack of function on gas. The refrigerator still got cold on electric the last time that I tried it but then again I have not tried it since I noticed that it wasn't working on gas.
I plan to buy the core from http://www.rvcoolingunit.net
David, the site owner, tells me that his re-manufacturer uses the thicker walled pipe that Dometic is currently using in the new cooling units. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you!
Another thought... Has anyone researched this failure in relation to the amount of time that the refrigerator was used? I happen to know that the refrigerator in the TT that I bought was used as an "extra" refrigerator for the previous owner.(he kept his beer in it... he ran it 24/7 for 5 years on electric) I have been thinking that the stress may have been cause by applying heat to a frozen ammonia/hydrogen system. Anyone have thoughts on that?
* This post was
edited 10/28/08 03:09pm by villeskier *
A couple of comments- while I would not hesitate to use a remanufactured cooling unit from a reputable firm in my own RV, I've stopped selling and installing them, simply because of the liability issues- does the reman company have enough liability insurance to cover defects like the one Dometic is dealing with. This is purely from a business liability point of view, though.
I would have the recall kit installed, though, as it really does nothing but add a layer of safety to the refrigerator.
The amount of usage does seem to have an effect- specifically, the amount of usage on 120 volt power. Up until this mess, I had always recommended running them as much as possible, until my Norcold (not under recall) failed with a boiler tube leak.
IMO rebuilt cooling cores can be as good as, or even better than the original. It all depends on the commitment of the re-builder to produce a quality product. If they are simply identifying holes, welding them up, and re-charging, then the unit is inferior and will most likely fail within the 1st couple of years. If they are completely replacing the tubes inside the foam pack, and, in the case of these recall units, replacing the entire boiler with thicker material, AND have well trained conscientious employees performing the work, then I might consider it superior to a new core. The problem is, it's hard (if not impossible) to know which (if any) remanufacturers are doing a good job. In addition, things have a way of changing (quality workers are replaced with unskilled / untrained workers, management substitutes cheaper materials, etc....). Hhhmmmmm, I wonder if any of this sounds familiar to some of the original equipment manufacturers?
Another thing to consider is cost. If they really do produce a superior unit, then the cost would most likely rival or exceed new. If I had the time to personally tour the factory, talk to the employees, and I was satisfied by what I saw and heard, then maybe I would consider rebuilt. Obviously that's not going to happen, so all things considered, I would probably just spend the extra ~$200 and purchase a new core. For that matter, if I were going to spend that much, why not just spend another ~$300 and get a whole new refer installed with a 3 year warranty?
I hate rewarding anybody that demonstrates poor customer support, but IMO there's not a lot of good alternate choices currently available. Considering the staggering cost of such a large scale recall, I think it's safe to assume Dometic is finally taking this quality issue very seriously. If I went with a new core, the only thing I would worry about is getting one that's been sitting in a warehouse somewhere. I would certainly try to verify it has a recent manufacture date before spending my money. In addition, I would also get rid of the old heating element and replace it with the latest one recommended by Dometic.
For what it's worth, I used to purchase and install about 10 - 20 rebuilt cooling cores every year from a "reputable" remanufacturer. I had very good luck with them for about 7 years. Sometime around 2000 I started noticing quality problems (fit problems mostly). There were also a few times I noticed questionable welds, bent pipes, etc. Sometime around 2002, and a very high percentage of these units (less than 2 years old) started failing and coming back. After eating several of these and doing several more at cost I had enough. I decided from that point on I would only recommend new cores or complete refer replacements. I know my experience could have just been an isolated case, but my reputation is too important to put at unnecessary risk. Unfortunately, the option to purchase quality anything in today's market is becoming rare. I have my opinions, but admit it's really just a******shoot, so go with your gut. As Dirty Harry would say "Do you feel lucky?" "Well, do ya?"..............Tim
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