So you say minivans can't handle any but the smallest pup, do you? Call me Exhibit A in the rebuttal.
We just got back from our best and longest trip ever. 16 days to Glacier National Park and back to Chicagoland via the Black Hills of SD. Our van is an 03 Honda Odyssey and had almost 110,000 miles at the start of the trip. 8,265# GCVWR, 2,840# FAWR, 2,835 RAWR.
CAT scale on the trip reported me at 2,800# FAW, 2,640 RAW, 2,500# trailer axle weight with the wdh hooked up. 7,940# GCVW. Very nearly maxxed out on my ratings.
Our popup is a Fleetwood Sun Valley 12 footer modestly equipped with a 1,995# DRY weight (but my wife packs like she's never coming back).
Performance of the van was excellent. NEVER felt underpowered, but often wished they'd given me the ability to manually hold D4 (of 5 gears). Westbound in South Dakota in a nasty headwind had me shifting more than I'd have liked between 4 and 5 (both are overdrives). Honda recommends premium gas when towing and it makes a big difference. I had to use regular for one tank and the van had to shift a lot more often to hold speed. ATF still looks new and pink at the end of the trip (changed it just before). Posted grades were often in the 7% range and I could pull them in third at 55 without the torque converter even unlocking.
I've been towing with the van since it was a year old, so I don't buy predictions of early tranny demise either. The Odyssey does NOT have a particularly robust trans either. They've lost a lot of reputation over Odyssey tranny replacements/failures. Not quite 90's Dodge-ish, but getting there! If it fails next week, it still isn't half bad by overall brand averages for NON-towing duty.
Braking performance was very good, but I've got the best for trailer braking. Plus D3 nearly holds me to 60 mph on a 6% grade with very minimal braking needed.
Control is excellent with the wdh. Steering could be a 2 finger affair if I so desired(I don't), no pull from passing trucks. Ride gets a bit bouncy on older concrete roads, but smooth as butter on good ones.
The real triumph was gas mileage. We averaged 18.4 for the whole trip. (4,000 miles) Worst tank was on the regular gas in SD (14 mpg). Best tanks hit 22 mpg! (eastbound in MT with a tailwind!)
Mountains or not, there is no need to derate or apply any sort of 80% rule to modern minivans. They can pull their ratings on any paved state or federal highway and do it reliably. I'm happily driving the proof.
I won't extrapolate my experience to say folks would have long term success pulling BEYOND the ratings, but it is surely nonsense to apply any 80% rule to a modern minivan.
I'm just waiting for the inevitable "Let us know when and where you plan on taking trips so we can all stay off the roads" replies.
Happy Camping
-Jimmy
P.S. I get the same mileage as you towing a 3500 pound popup.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle) '05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle) '65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!) Looking for a tow vehicle Minivan towing
Well congrats, sounds like a good trip and you did keep within Honda's tow rating by the sounds of it, so things should of gone well, without difficulty.
Glacier on the US side and Waterton on the Canadian side is a beautiful International Peace park. We enjoyed our stay there. Waterton's first Superintendent was a legend of the Canadian West...Kootenai Brown.
South Dakota is a wonderful state. Every time I see Mount Rushmore, I think of that classic Alfred Hitchcock movie, North by Northwest.
Thanks for the positive report on the Honda van. While I have no intention of towing with it, we are in the process of buying a 2008 Honda van this week. Nice to know it can stand up to the rigors you have put it through. I owned a 2003 Honda Pilot with basically the same engine and transmission, never had one issue with the vehicle the whole time we owned it. I wish all vehicles were made as well as the Hondas.
Capt Skup
AD-1(AW)USNRet.
Wonderful Wife,3 Daughters,2Goldens Gus&Riley
"Never get in a battle of wits with an unarmed man"
lesmore49 wrote: Well congrats, sounds like a good trip and you did keep within Honda's tow rating by the sounds of it, so things should of gone well, without difficulty.
Not true, Les. According to the weight police, 80% of 3500 drops your rating down to 2800. If the trailer axle weight was 2500 with WD as stated, with 5 people in the van and luggage, the weight police would have had him subtracting this and that away from the 2800 lb theoretical tow rating (anything beyond a 150 lb driver or whatever). What he did not exceed was the front and rear axle ratings, which is what actually matters. He has a good setup, even though he is theoretically exceeding his tow rating.
But, back to reality. To the original poster, good to hear the great report on the performance of the van. The Honda Odyssey is a great minivan for towing. I agree that holding 4th gear would have been a nice feature - I have heard others say the same thing. My popup weighs around 2700 lb loaded, and my Ford Freestar also does very well with it, although I think your fuel economy is a little better than mine. Either way, thanks for posting your trip report. It sounds like you have a great setup.
* This post was
edited 07/29/08 02:07pm by Fast Mopar *
2004 Ford Freestar 4.2 liter
2003 Jayco Qwest 12A
preserve the Second Amendment
Revenge of the minivan, huh? Well, I suppose whats good for the goose is good for the gander, so here's 'rebuttal of a big truck', haha:
..We just got back from a great trip to Gatlinburg, TN as well. Went there for the Ford Truck rally, was really fun. Hahaha, us Ford trucks basically took over the campground, nearly every site in the CG was occupied by a trailer pulled by Ford Excursions or superduty pickups (many of them are still there, hate we had to leave Sunday). Met up with some really cool folks, many of which are members here.
Our Excursion towed steady as a rock, like always. Every time I tow with it, I am more happy with how this powerful V10 performs. Almost seems like it gets better and better every time we tow with it. Very quiet and smooth almost like a regular car engine, yet puts out gobs and gobs of towing power. Seems like it will pull the gates off of h*ll if I asked it to, haha! Yep, it uses up a lot of fuel, but when you look at how much power it produces compared to the mileage...IMO the V10 is about the most efficient towing engine ever built.
Hauling over 8200 lbs and 34' of trailer that has large aerodynamic profile (7' ceilings), STILL, our V10 Excursion climbed the mountain grades easily, at 50-55 mph. LOL, when this V10 kicks down into 2nd gear turning 3500, it feels like it could pull ANYTHING up ANY hill. Regular highway towing, it will do whatever speed I feel comfortable doing - 60, 65, 70...whatever. Really helps, that Ford's 4R100 tranny will let me hold whatever gear I want to, basically. I can lock out 4th/overdrive gear (which I do when towing), or make it stay in 2nd when descending or climbing a steep hill.
Braking was excellent also, as always. Ford uses same brakes on the Excursion as the F350, so they are very stout and will take a lot of abuse. Brakesmart controller really makes the trailer and truck feel as one when stopping. Could stop comfortably any time I needed to, never had to worry about the brakes.
Really enjoyed all the space and comfort our 34' trailer gives us inside, when we got to Gatlinburg. The tall ceiling makes it feel very roomy inside. No canvas to deal with, no hand-cranking to do, no beds to have to make up, tons and tons of space inside with the large, deep slideout...Complete privacy in that kids have their own room/bunkhouse on one side of trailer, we have our bedroom on opposite side. Private, hard-wall bathroom inside, very quiet and peaceful inside even during a rainstorm one night. When it rained some Saturday morning, kids had plenty of space to play inside, until the rain quit. Fortunately our trailer has very high ground clearance, so there is plenty of room underneath the trailer to store all our stuff, so chairs, bicycles, etc didnt get wet when it rained.
Yep, camping truly is great.
Glad to hear your van is working out well for you. You can keep it, though. I'll gladly give up a few MPGs for the luxury and comfort our trailer gives us over a popup, ANY day.
Will & Angela
2 children that love camping, Stephen & Allison
2003 Ford Excursion V10 4x4 ("No Taxpayers were harmed by the makers of this truck")
2003 Thor Citation 33M, Hensley Arrow hitch, Brakesmart Brake Control Our Rig
A "FEW" mpg? hehe. I notice you don't admit the actual figure, but I'll be generous and assume you get 9 mpg for an overall average (though I suspect a bit less with V10). I paid roughly $4.25 a gallon average for premium and you probably don't need that so the same trip might have been $4.00/gallon. Thus, I spent $924 on gas. You'd need $1,778 worth of gas to take the trip.
Maybe the extra $854 is no problem for you and well worth the convenience you cite. Congratulations!
But the entire week of July I was at Glacier NP, only TWO of the campgrounds ever filled to capacity. In a typical July, the GNP front range campgrounds are mostly ALL full by 2:00 in the afternoon. So a lotta folks out there must be cutting back on the awesome, but distant destinations. For those of us without the budget to buy the big rig in the first place AND feed the beast on a regular basis, the minivan/popup combo is looking pretty sweet - and making it a great time to visit the best places in America without the usual tourist swarms.
willald wrote: Revenge of the minivan, huh? Well, I suppose whats good for the goose is good for the gander, so here's 'rebuttal of a big truck', haha:
..We just got back from a great trip to Gatlinburg, TN as well. Went there for the Ford Truck rally, was really fun. Hahaha, us Ford trucks basically took over the campground, nearly every site in the CG was occupied by a trailer pulled by Ford Excursions or superduty pickups (many of them are still there, hate we had to leave Sunday). Met up with some really cool folks, many of which are members here.
Our Excursion towed steady as a rock, like always. Every time I tow with it, I am more happy with how this powerful V10 performs. Almost seems like it gets better and better every time we tow with it. Very quiet and smooth almost like a regular car engine, yet puts out gobs and gobs of towing power. Seems like it will pull the gates off of h*ll if I asked it to, haha! Yep, it uses up a lot of fuel, but when you look at how much power it produces compared to the mileage...IMO the V10 is about the most efficient towing engine ever built.
Hauling over 8200 lbs and 34' of trailer that has large aerodynamic profile (7' ceilings), STILL, our V10 Excursion climbed the mountain grades easily, at 50-55 mph. LOL, when this V10 kicks down into 2nd gear turning 3500, it feels like it could pull ANYTHING up ANY hill. Regular highway towing, it will do whatever speed I feel comfortable doing - 60, 65, 70...whatever. Really helps, that Ford's 4R100 tranny will let me hold whatever gear I want to, basically. I can lock out 4th/overdrive gear (which I do when towing), or make it stay in 2nd when descending or climbing a steep hill.
Braking was excellent also, as always. Ford uses same brakes on the Excursion as the F350, so they are very stout and will take a lot of abuse. Brakesmart controller really makes the trailer and truck feel as one when stopping. Could stop comfortably any time I needed to, never had to worry about the brakes.
Really enjoyed all the space and comfort our 34' trailer gives us inside, when we got to Gatlinburg. The tall ceiling makes it feel very roomy inside. No canvas to deal with, no hand-cranking to do, no beds to have to make up, tons and tons of space inside with the large, deep slideout...Complete privacy in that kids have their own room/bunkhouse on one side of trailer, we have our bedroom on opposite side. Private, hard-wall bathroom inside, very quiet and peaceful inside even during a rainstorm one night. When it rained some Saturday morning, kids had plenty of space to play inside, until the rain quit. Fortunately our trailer has very high ground clearance, so there is plenty of room underneath the trailer to store all our stuff, so chairs, bicycles, etc didnt get wet when it rained.
Yep, camping truly is great.
Glad to hear your van is working out well for you. You can keep it, though. I'll gladly give up a few MPGs for the luxury and comfort our trailer gives us over a popup, ANY day.
Since you want to act like a (deleted), I'll take the HOTEL over your camper anyday. I hear you can come across a little crass.
Oh yeah, it's nice of you to approve of this fellow keeping his camper.
* This post was
edited 07/29/08 05:15pm by McDonoughDawg *
Guest wrote: For those of us without the budget to buy the big rig in the first place AND feed the beast on a regular basis, the minivan/popup combo is looking pretty sweet
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