Caneman8434
Tampa Bay, FL
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I've got a 2002 Mazda Tribute, Auto tranni, 3.0 V6, 200 HP, with a towing capacity of 3500 pounds. A small TT dealer is trying to convince me that my SUV will comfortable pull an 18'3" 2700 pound DRY trailer. My response was, "What about its LOADED weight? Won't it exceed my maximum towing capacity?
After asking this question several times and having been told that it'd BE FINE; as long as I install a load-leveling class III hitch and a tranni cooler, I went looking for a less biased source of information.
To my surprise, a well-respected hitch installation guy agreed with the TT dealer. Their main argument is that the dry weight is well below my TV's towing capacity and I'll never load the small trailer with 800 pounds of liquids and personal stuff to be carried while in transit. They recommended that I not tow with full fresh and black water tanks, but make sure I drained them and put maybe 10-15 gallons of fresh water in it; just enough for drinking water and toilet flushing while in transit.
I plan on adding the recommended tranni-cooler, class III load-leveling hitch, dig. electric brakes, etc, but am still struggling with how much trailer I can safely tow. I don't want to buy a larger TT and have problems down the road with my tranni or engine overheating.
Can anyone help straighten this out for me? Thanks in advance...
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mrhddh
Puget Sound, Washington
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You need to look at the "Combined Gross Vehicle Weight Capacity". It's not just what your vehicle can tow, it is also the combined weight of your vehicle, including Mom, Dad, kids, dogs, cats and gas in addition to the weight of the trailer. What kind of country side are you going to be pulling over? Flat? Hills? Mountains? You might be okay, but I think that you are pushing the envelope. Smaller trailer or bigger rig.
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kknowlton
Wisconsin Border Country, IL
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Personally, I think both dealers are wrong. Either they are misinformed or they are dishonest. You're right to be concerned. If you have kids or large dogs or fellow adults that will be accompanying you on camping trips, you need to account for their weight in your vehicle, as well as the weight of any cargo you will carry in the Mazda when towing - PLUS the weight of the WD hitch. I think you'll be either right up against your max weight, or over it. And I disagree that 2700 lbs is "well below" 3500 lbs - that's only 800 lbs allowed for all liquids, gear, passengers in the car, weight of the hitch, etc.
Our 34' trailer has lots of cargo space but has only 818 lbs of allowable cargo capacity (per the manufacturer's sticker, put on when the trailer was weighed just after it was completed). There are only 2 of us, no kids, no dogs, who go camping, and we very carefully weighed ALL of our personal gear, food, etc. before we loaded it into the trailer the first time. Our stuff weighed 535 lbs, and we were going relatively light. They're right that you usually don't have to travel with a full water tank (and waste tanks are always a good idea to empty before travel), but water still weighs 8.3 lbs per gallon. 10 gallons of water = 83 lbs. LP gas weighs too, and if you carry a 20-lb tank, it holds 20 lbs of gas, PLUS there's the weight of the tank (probably also about 20 lbs). Options on the trailer, such as a/c, awning, oven, microwave, etc., are also NOT included in the "dry" weight, and they can add up to several hundred pounds. It's been our experience that smaller/lighter trailers, when loaded for camping use, often come close to their GVWR, so it's easiest just to figure that's what it will weigh, and plan your towing accordingly.
I agree with mrhddh: smaller trailer, or bigger tow vehicle.
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BroncosFan
USA
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Imagine the litigation that could be pinned on you if involved in a wreck over your weight ratings. Just some thoughts to consider when you are pondering your weight numbers. Most posts I have read say add another thousand pounds to your dry rating. Then work all your numbers from there. The hitch guy seems to know what he is talking about guessing 800 pounds for you, Take care.
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Caneman8434
Tampa Bay, FL
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Thanks for all of your quick answers. I'm trying to digest them...
I've also looked at a 13'9" Fun Finder X-139, with a dry weight of 2107 pounds (hitch + axle weight). It's cargo capacity is 1223 pounds. With my TV's max towing capability of 3500 pounds (BTW, I can't afford to replace my TV for a bigger vehicle; I owe more than the vehicle's worth right now), it sounds like you're recommending that I go with something like the X-139. It has a GVWR of 3330 pounds. Would this be all right?
The other TT I was referring to above is a Fun Finder X-189FBR, with a dry weight of 2708 pounds and a GVWR of 5850. The salesman said there'd be no problem towing the X189FBS; it's 2708 pound dry weight leaves plenty of carrying capacity before exceeding my TV's max towing capacity. Over 700 pounds of cargo seemed like plenty, but now I understand from you that the stated dry weight doesn't include options like the weight of the microwave, TV, etc.
Ye gads this is confusing! I really had hoped that we could tow the X-189 with our Mazda; it has more floorspace and seating space. I'm trying to work my wife up toward Full-time RV'ing. I'm afraid that the smaller rig will convince her that she couldn't live in a TT full-time...
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Caneman8434
Tampa Bay, FL
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BTW, it'll only be myself and my wife, along with our 14 pound terrier. Once and a long while we may take one of our grandchildren.
Also, I assume that I'll need brake assist.
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SteveRankin
Sequim, WA
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Caneman8434 wrote:Thanks for all of your quick answers. I'm trying to digest them...
I've also looked at a 13'9" Fun Finder X-139, with a dry weight of 2107 pounds (hitch + axle weight). It's cargo capacity is 1223 pounds. With my TV's max towing capability of 3500 pounds (BTW, I can't afford to replace my TV for a bigger vehicle; I owe more than the vehicle's worth right now), it sounds like you're recommending that I go with something like the X-139. It has a GVWR of 3330 pounds. Would this be all right?
The other TT I was referring to above is a Fun Finder X-189FBR, with a dry weight of 2708 pounds and a GVWR of 5850. The salesman said there'd be no problem towing the X189FBS; it's 2708 pound dry weight leaves plenty of carrying capacity before exceeding my TV's max towing capacity. Over 700 pounds of cargo seemed like plenty, but now I understand from you that the stated dry weight doesn't include options like the weight of the microwave, TV, etc.
Ye gads this is confusing! I really had hoped that we could tow the X-189 with our Mazda; it has more floorspace and seating space. I'm trying to work my wife up toward Full-time RV'ing. I'm afraid that the smaller rig will convince her that she couldn't live in a TT full-time...
It's hard to over estimate the importance of weighing the TT as actually built for starters, and then as actually loaded.
The dry weight of our Arctic Fox is 7860#. But in reality it weighed 8470# just 15 minutes after we bought it. Totally empty. A few years ago we weighed our brand new Holiday Rambler 32FKD just minutes after taking delivery. Factory dry weight: 8,750#. Actual dry weight: 10,100#.
The same can apply to your TV. The Mazda has a GVWR & a GCVWR that are both affected by the actual weight of the vehicle as well as the weight of the vehicle with people & stuff, which includes the weight of the trailer hitch, too.
You might not be able to get an actual weight on a TT before you buy it, but you can certainly get the weight of your Mazda (with full fuel tank) & calculate how much is GVWR is left for tongue weight (+ hitch) and how much GCVWR is left for pulling a TT. An important part of this is leaving yourself an adequate margin.
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campnrun
Amelia, OH
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We have an '03 V6 Mazda Tribute also. I've used it many times to pull Pop-ups and it has done a fantastic job, but I would not consider it a tow vehicle capable of towing a travel trailer. For one, it only has a 4-pin connector. Although not impossible to rewire, you'd have to run wires for 7-pin and add an electric brake controller. As others have mentioned you'd also have to change the hitch to a Class III WD. Third, even if Mazda and TT were within the weights, I'm not sure it could handle the frontal area.
Don't want to discourage you. JMHO...Keep us posted! Don
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havedreamwilltravel
Southern California
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What was touched on in the above post about frontal area is an important consideration.
Most lightweight SUV's are not able to handle the frontage area that a TT has and many manuals will state a limitation on that on some cars/suv's.
The aerodynamics of trailer towing is akin to you, pushing a big piece of plywood through a windstorm - by yourself. Now toss a couple a thousand pounds onto the plywood and how are you doing? Getting anywhere?
This, in effect, is what your expecting your SUV to do. This can cause wear and tear and really burn up the transmission quickly as these transmissions were not built for the purpose of towing but of city/hwy driving and grocery getting. Most trucks/SUV's that have been built with higher tow capacities have heavier duty transmissions, chassis, suspensions etc. The torque readings are usually higher to help get the load started from a stop - which can cause a lot of stress on a transmission not made for towing. Any grade you hit will just add to the resistance and stress on a vehicle not made for towing trailers.
Towing a popup changes those wind dynamics as now the pop up is lower (usually) than the car and offers little wind resistance. A boat with a pointed bow also slices through the wind differently - giving little resistance. Had a car once that had two tow ratings - one for a trailer, and one for a boat (boat tow capacity was 1000#'s higher).
Another consideration is to make your Mazda a toad and get a motorhome - there are many for sale right now and deals galore. Your wife might like the motorhome better anyhow.
As it stands - I think a pop up is about all I would consider with that car.
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TXiceman
(Near) Houston,TX
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Check the frontal area limitations fro the Escape/Tribute SUV's. As noted above, it should do fine fro smaller popup trailers.
The 3500# towing capacity is a maximum and does not include additional passengers and cargo in the SUV beyond a 150# driver. So add a wife, kids, some supplies in the SUV, you will be down 200# or more and more like 3000# to 3300# for a MAXIMUM capacity. Realistically, I would look for a trailer that was no more than 80% or 3500# or 2800# for a loaded weight.
The dealer and hitch people you have been talking to are dangerous in my opinion.
Ken
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