dfm11
Ohio
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I had the same ans. from the dealer I bought my TT from and when I went to pull it on my first trip I found that my TV was not strong enought for it. I had to go out and buy a 01 Suburban to tow with and not try it with my 08 Trailblazer.
Me my Wife & Jack & Roxy
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SteveRankin
Sequim, WA
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TXiceman wrote:Check the frontal area limitations fro the Escape/Tribute SUV's. As noted above, it should do fine fro smaller popup trailers.
The 3500# towing capacity is a maximum and does not include additional passengers and cargo in the SUV beyond a 150# driver. So add a wife, kids, some supplies in the SUV, you will be down 200# or more and more like 3000# to 3300# for a MAXIMUM capacity. Realistically, I would look for a trailer that was no more than 80% or 3500# or 2800# for a loaded weight.
The dealer and hitch people you have been talking to are dangerous in my opinion.
Ken
According to my 2005 Ford 'RV & Trailer Towing Guide' the Ford Escape has 2 possible frontal area limitations:
2.3L Hybrid or 2.3L 4-cyl engine: base vehicle frontal area (24sf)
3.0L V6: 30 sq ft
So, since the Escape is ~6' wide, a pop-up trailer that's 8' wide and just 3' tall would add 3 sq ft on each side, totaling the max 30 sq ft. Towing ANY kind of TT is out of the question regardless of weight.
And the dealer/hitch people are definitely dangerous and quite self-serving.
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rotbaron
Hendersonville TN.
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One point to keep in mind is your RV dealer isn't going to be towing your TT. Even if you technically are just under your max CGVWR, that doesn't mean it will be a comfortable tow. If every trip you make includes a lot of "pucker factor" you won't enjoy the trip and will be dreading the return home. I went through this and traded a 4 year old truck that I liked, didn't have any problems with and was paid off, because it just didn't have the guts to do the job at hand. So now I have a 1 Ton Dually and made notes for 3 more years. Another thing to think about is human nature causes us to pack and carry a lot more than we think we will. Gotta take this, gotta take that, and it adds up weight wise. It is easier to go lighter and have breathing room.
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bud121156
Shelby, North Carolina
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I tow a 2100 lb Fleetwood Westlake pop-up with an Escape. I considered pop - ups weighing 200-300 lbs more and briefly wanted one of those small self contained TT before buying, but are comfortable pulling and stopping this model. I wouldn't want to be close or over my tow limit!
Donnie and Cheryl
Shelby, North Carolina
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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SteveRankin wrote:According to my 2005 Ford 'RV & Trailer Towing Guide' the Ford Escape has 2 possible frontal area limitations:
2.3L Hybrid or 2.3L 4-cyl engine: base vehicle frontal area (24sf)
3.0L V6: 30 sq ft
So, since the Escape is ~6' wide, a pop-up trailer that's 8' wide and just 3' tall would add 3 sq ft on each side, totaling the max 30 sq ft. Towing ANY kind of TT is out of the question regardless of weight.
Steve,
According to Ford's Frontal Area Considerations, the F550 Super Duty has a Frontal Area Limitation of 60 sq ft. If this limitation were strictly applied, many TTs and virtually all 5ers could not be towed with an F550.
Please note Ford does not say you must not exceed the stated frontal area value. They do state, "Exceeding these limitations may significantly reduce the performance of your towing vehicle."
Ford does not state at which speed the "limitations" should apply. Since many highways have a posted speed of 70 mph, let's assume that the frontal area values are for a speed of 70 mph. Then, if the TV has a FA limitation of 30 sq ft and the TV/TT have a FA of 36 sq ft, the driver has the option of towing at a speed less than 70 mph in order to reduce the power demand on the engine.
Aerodynamic drag is approximately proportional to the square of the air speed. For simplicity, let's assume the ground speed and air speed are the same. This means the power required to overcome the aerodynamic drag (speed times drag force) is approximately proportional to the cube of the speed.
Therefore, the power required to overcome the aerodynamic drag on 30 sq ft at 70 mph would be approximately equal to the power required for 36 sq ft at 66 mph.
So, I don't think we should take the "Frontal Area Limitation" too literally. A relatively small reduction in speed can compensate for a fairly large "overage" in frontal area.
Ron
* This post was
edited 08/09/08 08:48am by Ron Gratz *
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yizit
Milwaukee, WI
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We had the same scenario only difference we had a 2002 Mazda MPV with towing pkg. & 3000# towing. This all took place earlier this spring when we wanted the FF 13' or 16'. We were concerned about the weight, but the RV dealers were only interested in selling us anything we looked at, regardless if it was within safety guidelines. We took our Mazda to another RV dealer, looking into the Aliners, who allowed up to pull an Aliner with a weight of 2100# dry. We had been pulling a PUP for the last 2 yrs with a weight of 2040# dry, going only 330 mi. 2X a yr. We pack VERY little, or so we thought. Well...we left the dealership with the Aliner in tow, got a couple of miles down the interstate and the transmission went. We pulled off to the side of the road, called the RV dealer to come get their trailer. Once we unhooked the Aliner, we were able to get the van into low gear and got off the interstate. Then drove directly to a car dealership & traded it in for a Nissan Pathfinder. The search began again for a TT, but this time we did our homework first, looking on this forum for information about tow weight etc. After checking into all this vast information, and going to a web site (wish I could remember) for a formula to figure the correct SAFE towing, we found our 6000# TV can safely tow 4000#. With that said....do your home work first. We were advised by someone on this forum that we shouldn't pull any size TT with our minivan. You not only have to be concerned of weight, but also wind drag and many other factors, and how the TV needs to be properly equipped. Knowing what we know now, we should never have pulled the PUP with our minivan. We bought a KZ Coyote Sport 13', but the dealers sure wanted to sell us 18' & 20' TT telling us our 6000# TV could handle anything. When we told them what we found out, they didn't have anything to say, and didn't push the larger RV's.
Good luck on your search, and don't let those RV or car dealers sell you something that could be very unsafe.
REMEMBER....SAFETY FIRST...EVERYONE ON THE ROAD WILL APPRECIATE IT.
Jim & Darlene
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Happy trails to you, keep smilin' till then
Happy trails to you, till we meet again
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Caneman8434
Tampa Bay, FL
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Thank you all for your thoughtful input. I must tell you, though, that it has made me doubt whether I'll be able to go through with our plans to buy a TT to pull behind our 3.0L V6 Tribute/Escape.
On the other hand, I've read posts on other sites that discussed smaller, more economic TTs and TVs where owners wrote that they used 4-cylinder Corollas and similar small engine cars to pull trailers way over their maximum towing capacity. Yes, it was done on the flat; not in the mountains, and the owners kept their speeds down and minimized their cargo, but they did do it.
I guess it all gets down to doing things intelligently. If you're pulling a TT that's close to your max when loaded, you keep your speed down and make sure your TV is properly prepared with a load-leveling hitch, tranni cooler, tranni temp guages, a brake assist system, etc.
Not all of us can trade-up our smaller TV to a larger, more appropriately-sized TV that is a better match for our intended TT (these acronyms are driving me a little nuts). And, if you don't want a pop-up or hybrid, for whatever reason, and have your heart set on a small hard-side TT, you've got to be willing to buy the lightest hard-side you can find that at least falls a decent amount below your tow-limit (although not as much as you guys recommend), knowing that you'll be stretching things a bit vis-a-vis wear and tear on your TV and safety. Recognizing that, you go slow and minimize cargo. It does sound like it can be done; with the right equipment and the right behavior by the driver.
As for the Frontal Area problem, I won't be able to meet that with any hard-side TT that I've looked at. I've found a deeply discounted 2008 left-over TT that meets my financial constraints and is 2107 pounds dry, has a GVWR of 3330 pounds, and a cargo capacity of 1223 pounds; more than any actual cargo I'll ever load into it and less than my 3500 pound towing limit. I now know that "dry" doesn't include the options that I might add to the TT and that fact means my true loaded weight may be closer to my towing limit than any of you would advise and is well beyond any 75 or 80 rule.
But, does that mean I should give up on my dream of a secure hotel room on wheels right behind my exisn car that my wife and I can use to travel the country and stay with our grandkids? I'd like to to think that I could get away with it without endangering my family or my TV; if I'm very careful.
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havedreamwilltravel
Southern California
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Quote:Not all of us can trade-up our smaller TV to a larger, more appropriately-sized TV that is a better match for our intended TT (these acronyms are driving me a little nuts). And, if you don't want a pop-up or hybrid, for whatever reason, and have your heart set on a small hard-side TT, you've got to be willing to buy the lightest hard-side you can find that at least falls a decent amount below your tow-limit (although not as much as you guys recommend), knowing that you'll be stretching things a bit vis-a-vis wear and tear on your TV and safety. Recognizing that, you go slow and minimize cargo. It does sound like it can be done; with the right equipment and the right behavior by the driver.
I know the feeling. I myself had made a poor decision by buying a car that couldn't tow - even though deep in my heart I knew I wanted my own TT but at the time it seemed that it would be impossible financially - and I thought I could let it go. But I couldn't and found out that I couldn't buy another car so soon after buying that one. In the end we figured out another way to get a tow vehicle but I also found a way to get rid of the bad purchase. I was able to trade one 2005 car for another 2005 Suburban straight across - keys for keys. It took a few months for me to find a dealer that would do the deal.
In the end it's your decision but decide very carefully what you will do. You've gotten good advice from several people who not only used that car to tow (which didn't work well) and people who have towed for several years and know their stuff and have hours and hours under their belt along with thousands of miles. You'd be wise to listen.
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canoe on top
Denver, CO, US
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Sometimes what we want doesn't match what is reasonable. If you think you are up-side-down on your TV now, think how much less it will be worth than what you owe if it doesn't have a transmission. I towed a pop up with a six cylinder TV with a 5000 lb tow rating. The PUP weighed 2500 and was fine. I wouldn't have wanted to tow more. I think a pop up is pushing your limits. Chances are, you will not be camping by yourself. Anything and anybody you put in your TV beyond yourself,needs to be subtracted from your towing capacity.
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yizit
Milwaukee, WI
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Did you check into the Aliner or Chalets? They are hard sided PUP's that set up in 30 secs. Check out the Aliner Ease or the Chalet 1930's (?) they have bathrooms. They tow low so less wind resistance and drag.
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