TC John
Chihcago
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I think the Crutch you mentioned Steve is acceptable to me. I a essentialy was just makeing a small difference in the truck to give me some extra insurance...I do agree that a drw is safer......I have towed with them for years. I just drive my truck 99 percent of the time with no TC. The dually fenders are a pain for parking etc ...there are perhaps hundreds of SRW trucks with TC on them.
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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TCJohn,
You are spot on with your knowledge of duallies as both you and I have had several and know what it's like. They're great when needed but only when needed. A real PITA when unloaded which is by far most of the miles tallied on the odometer of the average pickup truck. It's not even close as MOST truck campers are on SRW trucks and notice how few are involved in accidents. Same percentage as duallies. How can that be??? Intelligent drivers operate their trucks/rigs in accordance with what makes sense for their rig size and weight which permits them to arrive at their intended destination safe and intact. You may note that Steve has one of those light popup pseudo campers on his truck and may not understand the real world of truck camper hauling. Maybe that's why Steve doesn't understand the purpose of air bags or suspension enhancements. According to him, airbags don't add to suspension load enhancement ability, they just level the truck. Dah!!!!! Mystical!!! Could he be full of hot air? An engineer or knowledgeable on the subject, he is not for sure! Actually, I was expecting a few of his continous advertisements for "Outfitter" and "Bob" in his posts and he's left me dissappointed. I reveiwed a lot of his posts on this forum and sure wonder if "Bob" rewards him! Maybe in his next post will fill the bill for "Bob"?
Steve,
Juvenile assertions are best met with responses on the same intellectual communication level so it's possible for the knowledge lacking poster to understand the real world and it's factual attributes.
2004 Chev 2500HD D/A crew cab LB 4X4 - Air Bags - Loaded
915 Lance Camper with 2'X 8' rear porch (my own design n build)
29 ft Carri-lite 5th wheel - 1 large slide - specially built
36 ft Carriage - 3 axle 5'er -NOW SOLD- Looking at some new 5'ers
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wnjj
Cornelius, Oregon
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Steve_in_29 wrote:Like I said my F350 SRW has the same GVWR as the GM dually. Seems to me if a person wants a truck to carry a heavy load they ought to get one that is rated to do so and not try to crutch a lesser vehicle.
I think marketing plays a fair amount into ratings, especially the conveniently just under 10,000 pound one that even Ford stayed under for years. I often see posts about people wanting to get their Ford back near level when loaded (maybe my perception is biased  ). That extra loaded rating, while still trying to keep your teeth in when empty, comes at a price too. I've read that Ford uses longer length springs to help the unloaded ride but results in a bit more sag when loaded. Of course that may not be the case...I did read it on the internet and we all know how accurate the information can be there.
My real world experience is this: My "lesser" 3500SRW sits lightly on the factory overloads running at 11k GVWR with nearly 7k on the rear. The headlights still hit the road.
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TC John
Chihcago
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Now I understand where he is comming from..I would not have a pop up to save my life...The camper I bought is from the number one pop up builder and he even said not to buy one...buy the hard side....you will have something to enjoy with your family.......I suppose a pop up is good for the single guy and or gal....but a family it would not be much fun... Different wet weight and discussion for sure...... I will make the SRW work for me.....air bags...steel wheels and 3750 tires......most guys dont even get that dramatic...
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Steve_in_29
29 Palms (SEMPER FI), CA 92277
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Joined: 01/08/2004
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travelnutz wrote:TCJohn,
You are spot on with your knowledge of duallies as both you and I have had several and know what it's like. They're great when needed but only when needed. A real PITA when unloaded which is by far most of the miles tallied on the odometer of the average pickup truck. It's not even close as MOST truck campers are on SRW trucks and notice how few are involved in accidents. Same percentage as duallies. How can that be??? Intelligent drivers operate their trucks/rigs in accordance with what makes sense for their rig size and weight which permits them to arrive at their intended destination safe and intact. You may note that Steve has one of those light popup pseudo campers on his truck and may not understand the real world of truck camper hauling. Maybe that's why Steve doesn't understand the purpose of air bags or suspension enhancements. According to him, airbags don't add to suspension load enhancement ability, they just level the truck. Dah!!!!! Mystical!!! Could he be full of hot air? An engineer or knowledgeable on the subject, he is not for sure! Actually, I was expecting a few of his continous advertisements for "Outfitter" and "Bob" in his posts and he's left me dissappointed. I reveiwed a lot of his posts on this forum and sure wonder if "Bob" rewards him! Maybe in his next post will fill the bill for "Bob"?
Steve,
Juvenile assertions are best met with responses on the same intellectual communication level so it's possible for the knowledge lacking poster to understand the real world and it's factual attributes. Well it seems that in all those years of college you missed the part about reading comprehension. You seem fixated about attributing a comparison of a dually to a 3/4 ton to what I am saying and using it to bolster your position, when I have clearly stated (several times) that I am only talking about a single rear wheel 1ton truck.
Unlike on a rig that has been properly designed to utilize air-bags as the main suspension (an 18 wheeler trailer for example) where the bags ARE the springs and carry the weight of the load by design, when they are added after the fact on a pickup truck's rear suspension to compensate for being overloaded they merely serve as a means of getting the overworked stock springs (the part the factory meant to carry the load) back off the bumpstops and the headlights pointed back down on the road. Now if you want to call that an "enhancement" then I see you did show up for the class on the proper use of "1984 Double Speak" at least. You sure you are an engineer and not an advertising guy?
***** Caution Paid Advertising Follows *****
Hey you should get together with sleepy. He recently found me out in another thread as well. He also resorted to questioning my integrity when intelligent conversation failed him. You guys don't happen to be related do you? From recent postings it would appear there are quite a few of us "paid" Outfitter boosters around. Hmm why I bet if you looked into it deep enough your engineer's mind could come up with proof that even RV.net is in on it. Get many black helicopters flying around your place do you? 
Well since "Bob" is the guy to contact it kind of makes sense, in a weird sort of way, to give him as the POC when people ask doesn't it. It would be kind of misleading to post that people should call the "Sales Office" or "Corporate Headquarters" to get the info they are after now wouldn't it? Someone might start a thread about how there is no "Sales Office" and we have seen where that leads.
"Pseudo camper"?? 44gal of water, 40lbs of LP, room to sleep 5, full size wetbath, 6'+ of headroom, 60"x80" full queen bed, heated basement, 4-season capability, 270W of solar, 4 AGM batteries, 2KW inverter, A/C, Electric/Gas/DSI water heater, etc. It doesn't seem my "pseudo camper" is lacking any of the features of your so-called "real campers" and has more then many. Plus it sits the truck level when loaded WITHOUT the need for air-bags. Why you would almost think that someone did their homework and tailored the truck to the required load or something.
What's so hard to grasp about the fact that I (and others) are very pleased with the campers and service we got from Outfitter. Too bad some of those other "real campers" didn't inspire such loyalty among their owners, they might still be making campers. But thanks for the opportunity to earn my keep with "Bob" and I will forward your cut to you soon. 
2007 F350,SC,LB,4x4,6.0/Auto,35" tires,16.5 Warn,Buckstop bumpers
2007 Outfitter Apex9.5,270W solar,SolarBoost2000e,2 H2K's,2KW inverter,2 20lb LP on slide out tray,4 Lifeline AGM bats,Tundra fridge
95 Bounder 28' ClassA sold
91 Jamboree 21' ClassC sold
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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Steve, did you forget to mention the 2 conference rooms, the grand ballroom dance floor, the humungous walkin closet to hang everyone's clothes plus their shoes and boots in, the spacious slideout pantry with all the food etc for the 5 sleepers, and room in which to put all your hookup and leveling items in inside your huge cavern? Having had a popup camper type for about a year, and just couldn't wait for the lame thing to vanish, we have some insight learned on the subject. Sleeping 5 in it would have surpassed the world phone booth stuffing record. Even getting 5 inside and being able to close the door would have made the history books! Don't anybody move, not even blink!!!! You hear every word or noise outside and those outside hear evry word or noise made on the inside! What a joke of a mole hole for the serious campers who use them 4 seasons or with a family!
I'm very happy for you as you seem to love your pop up and Bob. They only make a few copies a year. Hard to compare with a real camper production operation! Maybe it works for you however, you are an extremely small portion of the truck mounted type camping unit public and not the spokesman for them and certainly not for the hardsided vast majority. I'm not knocking "Bob's" build quality etc but rather you're ridiculousness. As for the thread a couple days ago where a few pop up/Outfitter owners were repeatedly posting to make it sound like they were 20 or so Outfitter braggers/owners as one member had stated, it fooled no one. I hope they get their checks in the mail too! A pop up is a pop up and a camper is a camper. Can't ever recall an owner of a pull behind pop up trailer referring to his trailer as a "Travel Trailer". Dah! BTW, many of those wheeled pop ups sleep 8-10 so why only 5 stacked in your's. hahaha
TCJohn, it's obvious you get it and some never will!
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Steve_in_29
29 Palms (SEMPER FI), CA 92277
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travelnutz wrote:Steve, did you forget to mention the 2 conference rooms, the grand ballroom dance floor, the humungous walkin closet to hang everyone's clothes plus their shoes and boots in, the spacious slideout pantry with all the food etc for the 5 sleepers, and room in which to put all your hookup and leveling items in inside your huge cavern? Having had a popup camper type for about a year, and just couldn't wait for the lame thing to vanish, we have some insight learned on the subject. Sleeping 5 in it would have surpassed the world phone booth stuffing record. Even getting 5 inside and being able to close the door would have made the history books! Don't anybody move, not even blink!!!! You hear every word or noise outside and those outside hear evry word or noise made on the inside! What a joke of a mole hole for the serious campers who use them 4 seasons or with a family!
I'm very happy for you as you seem to love your pop up and Bob. They only make a few copies a year. Hard to compare with a real camper production operation! Maybe it works for you however, you are an extremely small portion of the truck mounted type camping unit public and not the spokesman for them and certainly not for the hardsided vast majority. I'm not knocking "Bob's" build quality etc but rather you're ridiculousness. As for the thread a couple days ago where a few pop up/Outfitter owners were repeatedly posting to make it sound like they were 20 or so Outfitter braggers/owners as one member had stated, it fooled no one. I hope they get their checks in the mail too! A pop up is a pop up and a camper is a camper. Can't ever recall an owner of a pull behind pop up trailer referring to his trailer as a "Travel Trailer". Dah! BTW, many of those wheeled pop ups sleep 8-10 so why only 5 stacked in your's. hahaha
TCJohn, it's obvious you get it and some never will! Hmm, I see you're a member of the when all else fails go for personal attacks school of thought. Is that something else you learned in college? By the way, it's spelled Duh!
I never claimed to be a spokesman for anything though by the same token neither are you and the fact that you own a small hardside camper doesn't add any credence to your position. I merely posted the FACT that it is better to get the right truck for the job then to crutch a lesser one to handle it. Not sure why that irrefutable fact has seemed to get your panties in such a wad.
Since you provide no information on the pop-up TC you supposedly owned I obviously can't comment as to its suitability for anything. However no matter how poor your choice in campers was, it has no affect on the FACTS about mine as presented. In fact despite your claims as to mine's unsuitability for family use I note that according to Lance's brochure, mine has almost 50% again as much water capacity as yours 44 vs 30, a larger gray water holding tank 16 (with option of 32) vs 13, the same amount of LP capacity, more counter space, more storage space in the cabover (both on either side of the bed as well as underneath it, the same size furnace as well as a heated basement for 4-season use that yours lacks. Mine only sleeps 5 because that's all the beds there are, duh! Two adults fit on the bed, two children (or two friendly adults) can sleep on the dinette and one child can sleep on the pull out bunk over the dinette, 2+2+1=5. I would have thought that would have been pretty simple math for an engineer. I get all that in a package with a lower COG that allows my truck to handle better on and off the road. I do agree with you though that for someone who wants to beat their wife while camping a hardside will muffle the sounds better to help avoid those pesky 911 calls.
So it seems that despite your baseless, irrational prejudice against all pop-up TCs some are more of a "real" camper then the supposedly real camper you own. Next time you might want to check out the competition before you get into a mines-bigger-then-yours fight.
Concerning the thread you mention you might be interested to learn that it has resulted in at least one poster (and possibly soon to be two) being banned from RV.net as he was one of the owners over at hallmark just trying to stir up trouble. There were also quite a few non-Outfitter owners pulling the OP's punk card on it as well, though we did have to share our payout from Bob with them. To quote a poster in yet another thread, "So few Outfitters, so much passion--so many Lances so little discussion.".
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Reddog1
El Dorado, CA (above the fog & below the snow)
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I was enjoying this thread, and read a lot that I did not know, and/or consider. Actually a lot of new to me information, thanks to a few posters.
The Thread has gone down hill fast. Hopefully, it will get back on track. If it has down graded to "my TC is prettier than your TC", maybe it should be locked.
Wayne
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Butch50
NW Montana
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Joined: 06/29/2002
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Wayne,
I would like to see it continue on but I wish 2 individuals would take the disagreements/discussion to a PM between them.
There has been a lot of good information brought out that I'm interested in on this thread.
I don't have a GM product but I would like to know if anybody knows what the wheel rating are for a 2006 Dodge 3500 9900 GVWR? It came stock with 265/70/17 LR E tires rated at 3195. They are 8" wide rims. The door sticker states 6200 RAWR at 75#. I think that is just to keep it under the 9900 GVWR. I think reading (or maybe I was dreaming that some states charge extra for trucks over 9900#) and that is one of the reason for that rating. I know in Montana I can go in and change my GVWR to almost anything I want. I talked to the DMV department and she said just drop in and we can change the 10,000 to 12,000 or 14,000 if you want. Now I know that doesn't change any tire ratings. I have had the wheels off the truck but have never seen any weight rating on them.
I'm also one that wants to keep my SRW Dodge. I have a F550 to pull my 5er but I'm down sizing there so maybe I can go down to one truck and want a smaller camper for my SRW. I have had duallys for years and just want to go to one truck and have it a SRW and yes for me a SB.
Anybody help?
Thanks
* This post was
edited 08/17/08 11:21am by Butch50 *
Butch
2006 F550 CC 4X4 Lariat PSD/Torqshift Dark Shadow Grey Metalic w/Manning F350 bed
2009 Excel Limited 30TKE
2009 Arctic Fox 1140 (On Order due February)
2006 Dodge 3500 Laramie 4X4 QC SB SRW/Cummins 6 speed Jake exhaust brake
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TC John
Chihcago
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I have had race cars for years and know some people in the wheel industry so I talked to a few and they told me when it comes to Aluminum wheels that are cast you wont find any wheels more than the 3000 pound capacity.
Now a forged wheel of course is nearly as strong as a steel wheel but they are difficult to find. Alcoa is about it when it comes to forged wheels. The sizes are limited...so that leaves steel wheels for most folks. Even many of the steel wheels will need to be custom for some trucks. The GM wheel is cast as most OE wheeels made of Aluminum are.
LT tires are maxed out at about 3750 with a typical 32.7 to 34 inch diametors
The Rickson deal is probably the best deal going because they have the wheels. I think a steel wheel and a 3750LT tire will work for most TC with any sensible load...wont catch me with a slide or a 11 ft camper on my SRW truck.
I went with the 3750 tires with out really knowing the load of the wheels..now that I know I would say make sure of what you got in the way of wheel load first. 4 times 3750 will handle a nice load if you have the wheel to go along with it.
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