daleybread
Orange County, CA
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Hi,
I'm looking to purchase a PUP to pull with our 08 Honda Odyssey and am confused about the weight. We looked at several brands of trailers and sales people steer us to the 3,500 trailers (GVW). Even though the manual states 3,500 I realize that when you add people, gear, etc we should be aiming much lower.
I am thinking that I should stick with a dry trailer weight of no more than 1,900 lbs by using the following:
The manual states:
-5,952 lbs GVWR (max weight of vehicle + people + gear + tongue weight)
-8,410 lbs GCVWR (loaded trailer + fully loaded vehicle)
-If the vehicle loaded is around 5,200 (dry weight of 4,385 + people + gas + gear).
-And the trailer loaded is around 2,300 (dry weight of 1,900 + gear. -I'd have a gross combined vehicle weight of 7,500 (or 90% of the GCVWR of the vehicle.
Does this make sense? Am I aiming too low or high?
Thanks for your help!
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campercajun
Central Texas Hill Country
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Daley, you're on the right track, doing the math before you buy. Your estimates are pretty close, but the GVWR of a trailer is the maximum weight it will carry, including the total weight of the trailer plus the cargo you load into it. Many popups will have a GVWR of 3500 lbs., but their actual dry weight or wet weight (with fresh water tank full and full LP bottles) will be considerably less, probably in the range of 1700 to 2400 lbs.
Just because a trailer has a GVWR of 3500 lbs. doesn't mean that you will put that much load into it, just that it is rated to carry that much, if you have a tow vehicle capable of pulling the max trailer weight. With your Honda tow vehicle, I think 1800-2000 lbs. would be a ballpark figure to look at for dry trailer weight. Somewhere in the trailer (usually in a cabinet near the sink) there should be a sticker listing the trailer's unloaded (dry) vehicle weight (UVW), carrying capacity, and GVWR (gross vehicle weight ratio), the maximum amount the trailer is designed to carry.
You could even go a little higher on the dry weight if you don't load your estimated 400 lbs. of gear into the trailer, and still keep the total trailer weight in the neighborhood of 2300 lbs. But 1800 to 1900 lbs. dry weight is pretty close to being right on the money for your tow vehicle capacities if you know that you will be loading around 400 lbs. of cargo to the trailer.
Once you get the trailer, weight it empty to check the accuracy of the weight sticker in the trailer, and then weigh it after it's loaded, so that you know for sure what you will be dealing with. With your T.V., you will need to watch the weights closely.
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Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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You math is solid, and you can't go wrong following this path.
However, I know many people happily pulling slightly more weight with the Ody van. It is not the best minivan for towing, but it's pretty good. The driveline is the same equipment used in the Pilot and Ridgeline trucks, and they carry 4500 and 5000 tow ratings respectively. Some people (including myself) think the characteristics of the minivan actually make it a better tow vehicle despite it's lower rating. As such, there are a lot of people willing to push the van to it's max knowing the hardware is solid at higher numbers.
A couple points about the Ody van. First, the reason it's not one of the best minivans for towing is because the transmission doesn't allow you to select D4 and hold it while towing, which would be the perfect towing gear. You can hold D3, which is a little too steep for flat-land pulling but great for hills. Otherwise, you have to run in D5 and let the transmission shift as needed. If it gets to hunting, you can slow down a little and drop to D3. Once it's in D3 it has plenty of power to pull substantial weight up significant grades.
Second, Honda requires a WD hitch for tongue weights over 200 pounds. Interestingly, this same requirement is not present on the Pilot and Ridgeline. So know ahead of time you need a class III hitch and WD to pull anything more than the smallest of popups. The WD hitch will prevent the rear sag and keep enough weight on the front tires to prevent wheelspin on wet pavement or grass.
Good luck and safe travels,
-Jimmy
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Mandalay Parr
Phoenix, AZ
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Being able to pull it is one thing. How about stopping it in an emergency at 60 mph? Will the minivan, any minivan, handle it?
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Fast Mopar
Houston, TX
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Mandalay Parr wrote:Being able to pull it is one thing. How about stopping it in an emergency at 60 mph? Will the minivan, any minivan, handle it?
Yes, that's why you have trailer brakes. That's also why people have trailer brakes on larger trailers towed by diesel dually pickups. A 1 ton dually will not stop a 14,000 lb fifth wheel very well without trailer brakes.
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Flip
Ontario, Canada
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re stopping?
Depending on the trailer you have, you'll either have
-no brakes which puts all the responsibility on the towing vehicle, minivan
-hydraulic brakes (also called surge brakes I think?) which requires no extra hardware/wiring installations, also lets other people tow the trailer if for some reason you can't, but you have to manually flip a switch to reverse, otherwise you'll be working against the brakes
-electric breaks which do require extra hardware/wiring installation, I don't have any experience with this (our trailer is the hydraulic brake kind) but from my experience, most new trailers have this kind (I could be wrong but this is my experience), they might be easier to operate, press the brake, put into reverse, it just works for you)
I've read anything over a certain weight (a thousand pounds?) requires brakes. Some trailers like my buddys' 1970s Bonair don't have any brakes. It's light enough it might not need it but with our 12" we need additional help to stoping it.
Your Odyssey should have plenty of pulling power to pull most popups out there. Yes, if you look hard enough I'm sure you can find something too big, but overall you'll be able to pull most.
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PavementPilot
Vernon, BC
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Another way to reduce towing weight is if you are headed to a CG and getting power and water hook ups, do not fill your tanks. Water is 10 lbs to the gallon. Also dump your tanks (fresh/grey/black) at the closest point of your departure.
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Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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Mandalay Parr wrote:Being able to pull it is one thing. How about stopping it in an emergency at 60 mph? Will the minivan, any minivan, handle it? As was already pointed out, trailer brakes stop the trailer. No additional braking ability is engineered into ANY tow vehicle for a trailer unless it is so light it would fit into the GVWR for the tow vehicle. This old argument just won't die.
Further, today's minivans have better brakes than you are giving credit for. 4-wheel disk is typical, rotors 12" and up, multi-piston calipers and 4 channel ABS. I would bet a donut that a minivan like the OP's Honda has more stopping power than a full size pickup made in the mid-90's. I have no concern this vehicle wouldn't be able to stop a popup camper, and very likely do it shorter than a larger truck as well.
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campercajun
Central Texas Hill Country
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Vehicle manufacturers spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars testing their vehicles to extremes in every imaginable way. If Honda rates the Odyssey at 3500 lbs. max trailer weight, the Pilot at 4500, and the Ridgeline at 5000, then they know something we don't. Don't think for a minute that if they thought it was safe and not detrimental to the longevity of the Odyssey, that they would rate the Odyssey just as high as the Pilot & Ridgeline. Regardless of the drivetrain's capabilities in other vehicles, I would stick to Honda's max trailer weight limit of the Odyssey. There is bound to be a very good reason for that limit, even though Honda isn't saying what it might be (brake capacity, height of center of gravity, springs, shocks, unibody stiffness, tire ratings, etc.)
If you could reduce some of the load in the minivan, that would give you a little more breathing room on trailer weight. But if you have kids, of course you're not going to leave them home when going camping.
* This post was
edited 08/12/08 01:21pm by campercajun *
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weathershak
Delaware
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Mandalay Parr wrote:Being able to pull it is one thing. How about stopping it in an emergency at 60 mph? Will the minivan, any minivan, handle it?
Let me chime in. The answer is yes. I towed a Starcraft 2101 approx 9000 miles in 3 years without trailer brakes and a class 2 hitch with a Dodge caravan. It stopped fine. Although going up hill was tough(3.0 litre)
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