Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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campercajun wrote:Vehicle manufacturers spent thousands of hours and millions of dollars testing their vehicles to extremes in every imaginable way. If Honda rates the Odyssey at 3500 lbs. max trailer weight, the Pilot at 4500, and the Ridgeline at 5000, then they know something we don't. Maybe. Or maybe there is no incentive to raise the tow rating on a minivan when the rest of the segment is capped at the same limit.
In any case, I didn't necessary tell the OP to blow off the rating. I told him that hundreds, if not thousands, of other Odyssey owners have discovered that the van is plenty capable and there is no reason to doubt the 3500 tow rating or fear getting close to it.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle)
'05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle)
'65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!)
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mike4947
N. Syracuse, NY
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The correct answer is maybe.
We've done actual braking tests on many TV and trailer combinations.
On average a 3000 pound PU towed by the average minivan that would stop in 160-170 feet without the trailer takes 240-260 feet with a trailer without brakes. With correctly adjusted brakes the stopping distances average 170-195 feet.
Can you always insure an extra 70-100 feet you'll need?
Ford actually states in their towing guide that the vehicle brakes are designed for topping the vehicle's GVWR, NOT the GCWR of vehicle and trailer.
I consider myself lucky that I started towing in NYS which has a 1000 pound limit on any trailer without brakes, so I always had brakes on my trailers. Which allowed me time to learn the need for brakes without having to test the theory that they aren't needed.
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sushidog
Abita Springs, LA
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I believe that all manufacturers hedge their bets by considering "worst case scenarios." I think that the engineers, attorneys and marketing people get together and try to decide how a vehicle can be abused before setting GVWR and tow ratings. Many consumers don't understand that you must subtract people and cargo weight in the TV from the GVWR and subsequently the GCVWR to determine how much your TV can really pull.
The odds of overloading a Ridgeline is probably less than a Pilot, by virtue of the available interior space of the Pilot and the fact that truck operators are probably a little more aware of load capacity and weight ratings than many SUV owners. The same can be said comparing typical SUV operators to stereotypical soccer mom (and dad - no flames please), minivan drivers. I'm aware that there are notable exceptions, but remember the manufacturer is trying to avoid liability at all costs, so they must consider the worst case scenario, where the mini-van is loaded to the physical limit of it's capacity, hitched to a 3,500lb trailer and set off on a trip through the mountains.
If an accident were to result from being overloaded, not only would the manufacturer need to prove that the vehicle's published weight limits were exceeded, but that the average vehicle operator can reasonably be expected to understand the formulas involved in calculating the "true" towing capacity of a fully loaded vehicle. I think that the lawyers have convinced marketing to lower the mini-vans tow limits to the std 3,500 lb established safe tow limit of all other mini-vans, since their inception, as a way of protecting themselves. It is far easier (and cheaper) just to reduce the mini-vans advertised tow rating, assuming that it will frequently be loaded to capacity while towing. Quite often, it's not what's right and wrong, but what can be proven in court. IMHO Just ask OJ. 
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campercajun
Central Texas Hill Country
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Caddy, I knew you didn't tell daley to exceed his tow ratings, but I didn't want him to get the idea that if many others are doing it, why can't he do it, too? In today's sue-happy climate, I'd shudder to think what he would have to go through should he, God forbid, seriously injure or kill someone while exceeding the manufacturer's tow ratings. These accidents will be thoroughly investigated, by law enforcement (which I used to be in), insurance companies (whom my wife works for), and attorneys (no, we aren't lawyers! )
I've seen these investigations, and they are thorough. If you are exceeding any capacity on your vehicle, towing or not, it will be discovered, possibly leading to civil liability suits or criminal charges. I just don't want anyone to face such an ordeal, thinking that the worst penalty for exceeding the manufacturer's limits might be losing an engine, smoking a transmission, blowing a tire, or the voiding of their vehicle's warranty. It can have much more serious consequences than that.
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Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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campercajun wrote:If you are exceeding any capacity on your vehicle, towing or not, it will be discovered, possibly leading to civil liability suits or criminal charges. This horse has been beat to death. GCWR and subsequently tow rating are NOT legal limits and are NOT recognized by law enforcement.
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Road Ruler
Canada
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Joined: 09/11/2003
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Flip wrote:
Your Odyssey should have plenty of pulling power to pull most popup's out there. Yes, if you look hard enough I'm sure you can find something too big, but overall you'll be able to pull most.
I agree Flip. We continually see Ody's getting a workout as a TV and the feed back is favourable.
One of our forum members gave a great feedback report of his experience with his almost max'd out Oddy. He loved the way it handled and performed, even in the mountains.
Here is his story... Guest and his Oddy
Airstreams.... the best towing trailers on the planet!
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Terryallan
NC
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You could check over at pux. But "Some " minivans. Do not have to subtract the weight of the gear, and people in the van from the tow capacity. In other words. Many minvans, can tow their 3500lbs of trailer. while the van is loaded.
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daleybread
Orange County, CA
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Thanks all.
My manual states that people and extra weight would need to be subtracted. In fact it says with 4 people the tow weight is 3050 lbs, not 3500.
We are definitely looking at models with trailer brakes. And thanks for the tip on the class 3 hitch. I thought since the lbs was less than 3500 we'd be fine with class 2 (but I guess that does not have weight distribution.
We're probably looking at models like the:
* Jayco 1006
* Fleetwood Cheyenne
It is challenging to pick a model because our dealers do not carry everything. I've heard good things about Viking and Rockwood, but the quality of the models I've seen look poor compared to Jayco and Fleetwood. But in some cases they carry lower end models, so it is hard to say what a direct comparison to the Cheyenne might look like.
Interesting details to work through, but this is all fun in anticipation of good times!
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PopBeavers
San Jose, CA
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I don't know about anywhere else, but in California any camping trailer weighing more than 1,500 pounds is required to have its own brakes. You don't need brakes here for a utility trailer until you get to 3,000 pounds. So, quite likely any camping trailer manufactured is going to have brakes on it. I would be very surprised to find any company that builds them without brakes. That would keep them out of the California market.
Wayne in San Jose
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mike4947
N. Syracuse, NY
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Here in NYS the limit is only 1000 pounds before you have to have brakes. But there are states such as Mass where the limit is 10,000 pounds. Most trailer builders have them as an option that the dealer may or may not order depending on the state law/limit.
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