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That should read "old days before LOCKING torque converters..." LOL.
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Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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iam1ru12 wrote:cada wrote:I love this topic........The only real concern I would have is if you have that accident. Just think of that attorney asking you if you were following your towing guidelines as spelled out in the owners manual...... I smell an unfavorable judgement followed by a civil trial......
It's for that exact reason I'm selling my Odyssey. I hate to see it go but I just don't want to take any chances.
-Mike Believe it or not, this has never happened. As it has been discussed on this forum many times over, tow rating and GCWR are not legally recognized limitations of a vehicle, only recommendations by the OEM. People worry about this constantly, and the only time I ever saw a first hand account of someone being sued for towing overweight the judge ruled in favor of the overweight driver. He was within all established bridge laws, and didn't exceed his tire or axle ratings, and was licensed and registered for the weight he was hauling. The court doesn't concern themselves with anything else.
I myself have first-hand knowledge of this. My family was involved in a terrible traffic accident that involved towing and fatality. (I was not the driver) After the accident everything was weighed and the investigator told me he was checking to make sure nothing was overloaded. I assumed he meant tow rating, but I later found out they were checking to make sure none of the tires or axles were over loaded and that the trailer was light enough to not require brakes in my state. "Tow rating" was never a concern, and didn't even make an appearance in the written report.
'04 Ford Freestar (Primary tow vehicle)
'05 Subaru Forester (Backup tow vehicle)
'65 Bethany popup (best popups ever made!)
Looking for a tow vehicle
Minivan towing
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iam1ru12
Raleigh/Durham, NC
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Caddywhompus wrote:iam1ru12 wrote:cada wrote:I love this topic........The only real concern I would have is if you have that accident. Just think of that attorney asking you if you were following your towing guidelines as spelled out in the owners manual...... I smell an unfavorable judgement followed by a civil trial......
It's for that exact reason I'm selling my Odyssey. I hate to see it go but I just don't want to take any chances.
-Mike Believe it or not, this has never happened. As it has been discussed on this forum many times over, tow rating and GCWR are not legally recognized limitations of a vehicle, only recommendations by the OEM. People worry about this constantly, and the only time I ever saw a first hand account of someone being sued for towing overweight the judge ruled in favor of the overweight driver. He was within all established bridge laws, and didn't exceed his tire or axle ratings, and was licensed and registered for the weight he was hauling. The court doesn't concern themselves with anything else.
I myself have first-hand knowledge of this. My family was involved in a terrible traffic accident that involved towing and fatality. (I was not the driver) After the accident everything was weighed and the investigator told me he was checking to make sure nothing was overloaded. I assumed he meant tow rating, but I later found out they were checking to make sure none of the tires or axles were over loaded and that the trailer was light enough to not require brakes in my state. "Tow rating" was never a concern, and didn't even make an appearance in the written report.
All very good points!
Part of is wishing we never purchased the Pilot. However with a recent incident of almost not being able to get up a remote spot for a star party while towing the camper with the Ody due to lack of traction, I guess the Pilot will come in handy. It just seems that trying to sell the Odyssey has been rather difficult; all I seem to attract are bargin hunters. I have it priced at $1,000 less that KBB and Edmunds TMV but folks are still low balling my price by another $1,000. I just hate the thought of making another payment on the Ody.
However there is one nagging concern for me with regards to towing with the Odyssey. Honda (American Honda Corp, not the dealership) is pretty good at honoring warranty claims even after the warranty period has expired, if you contact America Honda directly or if your dealership is a good one and you can document you vehicle has been maintained in accordance with Honda's schedule. I imagine they would question any such request for a vehicle with a tow hitch. Regardless, what's done is done and my wife loves her Pilot, but I miss the Odyssey.
-Mike
* This post was
edited 08/19/08 10:28am by an administrator/moderator *
1999 Honda CR-V EX (his)
2004 Honda Pilot EX-L RES (hers)
2008 Rockwood 2302 Premier (pop-up)
2007 - Days Camping (Tent): 2
2008 - Days Camping (PopUp): 13
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Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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iam1ru12 wrote:I imagine they would question any such request for a vehicle with a tow hitch. Yes, this has come up many times as well. I once asked Andy Thompson if any of his customer had been questioned about towing over weight, having a custom class III hitch, or denied warranty as a result of towing over weight.
His answer was "No." He said the vehicle manufacturers all require trailer brakes to tow the maximum advertised tow rating, so they have no business questioning the 7-pin trailer wiring. Further, adding a custom hitch to a vehicle does not mean you are automatically towing over weight, it could be simply that you needed a WD hitch to prevent rear sag, something else that a lot of OEMs also require (including Honda).
When I was shopping for a hitch for my Freestar, I went to the Ford dealer first to see what they would offer me OEM. The largest hitch they offered was class II, and I wanted/needed class III. The parts guys behind the counter asked me why I needed class III, as the class II hitch was rated as high as the van. I told him I had a 4-bike hitch mounted carrier that I needed a 2" receiver for. No problem. He put away the Ford book and turned to his computer and helped me find the Hidden Hitch I currently have installed. The hitch works great, and has never come up the times I've had the van in for service.
I admit though, I've never had a major warranty claim especially towing related. The weight police would have you believe towing with a minivan means a transmission every year. Knock on wood I've got 70k miles on the Freestar and with regular transmission service the fluid is pink and fresh, and she still shifts like new.
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Previous posts on Odyclub.com on the matter of tranny replacement under warranty (The Odyssey has a higher rate of tranny failures than usual for Honda), the Honda dealer must get approval from Corporate before replacing the tranny under warranty. The assessment includes a form with three apparently towing related questions:
1. Does the vehicle have a trailer hitch?
2. Does the vehicle have an auxialliary transmission cooler installed (required for towing trailer per the manual)?
3. Does the vehicle have a trailer wiring harness installed?
One presumes that a Y, N, Y answer would trigger some resistance to warranty coverage. I've yet to hear a story at Odyclub.com about any more significant investigation into WHAT was being towed. Mind you, I personally don't think it is morally acceptable to take warranty coverage if a transmission failed due to heat stress and you towed over the GCVWR.
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iam1ru12
Raleigh/Durham, NC
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Guest,
I agree, not the right thing to do. However that's the concern with the Ody, can it's transmission really handle 9,000 pounds versus the stated GCWR of 8,265? So far I've been really impressed with the Tru-Cool low presure drop cooler I installed. These look like the coolers Honda us now installing as OEM on the 2009 Pilot. The cooler has kept the AFT looking brand new after two trips to the mountains (NC and WV).
-Mike
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Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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Guest wrote:Mind you, I personally don't think it is morally acceptable to take warranty coverage if a transmission failed due to heat stress and you towed over the GCVWR. Fortunately my Ford hasn't yet forced me to make that call. Although I still have Ford extended warranty up until 95k miles.
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Debian Dog
Chester, VA
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GOD I cant believe we are still discussing this after 3 years.
I just finished YET ANOTHER 1600 mile trip. Now 73,000 miles on the old minivan towing the same trailer. Same tranny.. same front and rear brakes. Gas tires oil and one trailer control box for the lights is the only thing I have burned up. (Last inspection he did say that I will be needing brakes soon)
Anyway this trip, I was in a hurry to leave and told my teenage son to plug in the trailer I did not check it and did not do a brake test like I usually do. No idea where my mind was . We roll down hill at 55 to a blinking red light and I notice the rig is NOT braking like it usually does. I look over and in horror see that brake controller is not connected and me sliding the lever is doing nothing, with the intersection RAPIDLY approaching. WE STOPPED JUST FINE - TOWING OVER 3500 pounds! Sheesh. Granted... I was standing on it.
Pound per pound, a minivan has more braking power than a standard pickup truck or SUV. Get over it. Trailer brakes brake the trailer.
27 foot TrailManor 2720 pulled by a Nissan Quest (3.5L 240HP/242T) - Dual EU2000i Honda Generators
Now with over 52k miles - Pictures of the rig and trip snapshots
If it tows like "it is not back there" you have too much tow vehicle 
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Caddywhompus
Southeast WI
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Debian Dog wrote:GOD I cant believe we are still discussing this after 3 years. Well said D-dog.
You should check out the thread running away over here, if you have nothing better to do than read for the next day that is.
Take care,
-Jimmy
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I must have missed the brake discussion. I was referring to the warranty coverage question. I freely admit that you can probably exceed the GCVWR and get away with it if you take proper steps. But if you DON'T get away with it, you sure shouldn't go crying to the manufacturer to have them replace the "defective" tranny.
Going beyond ratings is like sailing beyond your charts. You can do it, but you've got no one to blame if you run aground.
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