Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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Ron Gratz wrote:Scaling of longitudinal dimensions from the Lockhart photos indicates the following:
IF the 3P's ball-to-pinhole distance is 19.75" as reported above, the 3P's side link scales to about 4.5" as compared to the HA's link length which, I believe, is 5.0". Also, the drop bar (the part with the three holes showing) scales to 1.8" thick rather than being 2"x2" stock which I would expect it to be.
Perhaps the 19.75" reported above actually is the distance from the ball to the face of the receiver. If this were the case, the 3P's link length would scale to 5.0" and the thickness of the drop bar would scale to 2.0". (Emphasis added)
Clarkely wrote:19.75" is from center of ball to face of receiver
Distance from Hitch pin to center of Ball is 22.5" ......19.75" from Face of TT receiver to Ball center
Clarkely, Thanks for your posting of dimensions and photos (although I expect the moderator will ask you to resize and rearrange the images).
Just one suggested change to your post -- in the upper left hand corner where it says Ron Gratz wrote:, it should say willald wrote:. Also where you state, "Face of TT receiver", I assume you are referring to the receiver on the TV.
On your 3P, the distance from the center of the ball to the face of the receiver is 19.75". Whereas the previous information from another ProPride owner indicated the distance from the center of the ball to the center of the receiver pin was also 19.75".
So, either the two 3P hitches have different lengths or there was an error in the previously reported value, since it's hard to disagree with your tape measure photos.
If the previously reported ball to receiver pin distance of 24" for the HA is correct, then the difference between that measurement and your measurement is only 1.5". Given the different lengths of HA hitch bars, I still believe it is possible that the 3P could be shorter than some HAs and longer than others.
Therefore, I believe that the topic of 3P hitch length versus HA hitch length belongs in the category of "different" rather than "better".
Ron
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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I have had to edit out numerous personal slams against other members in this thread. I WILL NOT tolerate that! If it happens one more time this thread will be closed. Please keep your remarks on topic without the snide personal comments directed toward other members. There has been some good information resulting from this thread and I do not want to close it but, believe me, I will if the personal attacks continue.
One more comment. If you are going to post pictures, the forum limit is a maximum of 640 pixels in any direction. Please put 640 or a smaller number in the "width" box every time you poat a picture. You do not need to put any number in the "height" box as the forum software will take care of it. It takes me a great deal of time to edit every picture that is too large. Thank you.
Barney
* This post was
edited 09/06/08 04:18pm by BarneyS *
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willald
NC
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Joined: 07/15/2002
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Thanks, Clarkely, great pictures. Your measurement from hitch ball to OEM receiver face confirms something I suspected. Another 3P owner I talked to who measured same thing, came up with 19.75" to the drawbar pin hole. I specifically asked/verified that he measured to the pinhole, not the OEM receiver face, and he said it was to the drawbar pinhole. However, it appears he did indeed get the measurement to the OEM receiver face, not to the pinhole. That, or like Ron said, somehow some drawbars are different lengths. Either way, it still proves the point I was making about this being an improvement, in that the ProPride projects the pivot point slightly further ahead than a Hensley.
Also, I think I wasn't clear enough, in describing the measurements we wanted for the lengths of the two side bark links. I meant, the length center to center, of the actual link pieces (the pieces you measured to be 3/4" thick). Did not mean the distance apart they are in the front and back (which is what it sounds like you measured).
Anyway, thanks again, for measuring and posting the pictures, clarkely. Eventually, we'll get this all cleared up. 
Will
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clarkely
Harleysville, Pa
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willald wrote:Thanks, Clarkely, great pictures. Your measurement from hitch ball to OEM receiver face confirms something I suspected. Another 3P owner I talked to who measured same thing, came up with 19.75" to the drawbar pin hole. I specifically asked/verified that he measured to the pinhole, not the OEM receiver face, and he said it was to the drawbar pinhole. However, it appears he did indeed get the measurement to the OEM receiver face, not to the pinhole. That, or like Ron said, somehow some drawbars are different lengths. Either way, it still proves the point I was making about this being an improvement, in that the ProPride projects the pivot point slightly further ahead than a Hensley.
Also, I think I wasn't clear enough, in describing the measurements we wanted for the lengths of the two side bark links. I meant, the length center to center, of the actual link pieces (the pieces you measured to be 3/4" thick). Did not mean the distance apart they are in the front and back (which is what it sounds like you measured).
Anyway, thanks again, for measuring and posting the pictures, clarkely. Eventually, we'll get this all cleared up.
Will
Ron ....Sorry for the mis quote when i was shortening the quote...i guess i screwed up I apologize.
Moderator..i apologize for the large pictures......i thought it would re size them automatically...new to posting pics on here..
Willald the distance between cc front to rear pivot points is 4.75"
I'd Rather be camping!
Sydney Outback 310BHS
2008 2500 Suburban(Diablo Programmer)ATX Black Chrome Wheels
AirLift WirelessAIR with Firestone RideRite Bags, Pressure Pro System, Tekonsha P3
ProPride 3P, Power Jack
1 Wife, 4 kids & a Dog...Bigger is Better!!
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Ron Gratz
full time RVer
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Joined: 12/27/2003
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willald wrote:Anyway, thanks again, for measuring and posting the pictures, clarkely. Eventually, we'll get this all cleared up.
I'm afraid things just got less clear regarding projection distance.
It seems we've been assuming that the 3P linkage dimensions are copied directly from the HA linkage dimensions. HA linkage dimensions which have been provided to me by HA owners are:
Front = 7.125" (7 1/8") Side = 5.0" Rear = 7.875" (7 7/8")
This gives a HA linkage projection distance = 52.35"
Clarkely has reported the center-to-center dimensions on his 3P are:
Front = 7.25" Side = 4.75" Rear = 8.0"
This gives a 3P linkage projection distance = 50.51"
However, the final word on this "improvement" discussion might have come from the owner of ProPride. The following comment/question was posted on the popupexplorer.com forum on 12/24/07:
"It'd be neat to test tow the ProRide and the Hensley Arrow on the same rig, back to back with otherwise no changes to the rig. When it's all said and done I wonder what the differences would be."
The response from Sean Woodruff was:
"As you might guess, we've done just that.
There is no difference in towing down the road. You wouldn't even know which one is on there. The only effective difference in what is happening is that the Pivot Point Projection is approx. 1.5" forward with the ProPride hitch. That isn't "seat-of-the-pants" noticeable.
I don't know how Sean came up with the '1.5" forward with the ProPride hitch'; and it doesn't really matter. He is saying there is no difference in towing. IOW, there is no "improvement" in towing with the 3P compared to the HA.
Perhaps the overall "improvement" question just did get cleared up.
Ron
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clarkely
Harleysville, Pa
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I would agree.I bet you can't tell a difference driving down the Road.....
I do believe there is a bit of difference in wear parts, weight, and ease of hitching/un-hitching
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willald
NC
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Joined: 07/15/2002
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Ron Gratz wrote:It seems we've been assuming that the 3P linkage dimensions are copied directly from the HA linkage dimensions. HA linkage dimensions which have been provided to me by HA owners are:
Front = 7.125" (7 1/8") Side = 5.0" Rear = 7.875" (7 7/8")
This gives a HA linkage projection distance = 52.35"
Clarkely has reported the center-to-center dimensions on his 3P are:
Front = 7.25" Side = 4.75" Rear = 8.0"
This gives a 3P linkage projection distance = 50.51"
Ron, if you go back and read the famous 50 page thread where we measured these things on the Hensley, you'll see that the approximate measurement we got for the side links on the Hensley was 4.5", NOT 5.0. And, I was the one that got those measurements, and said it was an *approximate* measurement, I was not able to measure with 100% accuracy at the time. It could (and apparently is) more like 4.75".
I say it is indeed 4.75" for both, 'cause I asked Sean this very question the other day, about the linkage lengths. His response, via email earlier today: Link dimensions of the 3P are EXACTLY the same as the Hensley, except the thickness that was increased.
Sooo, indeed, the net result is that the 3P projects the pivot point 1.5" further forward than the Hensley.
Quote:I don't know how Sean came up with the '1.5" forward with the ProPride hitch'; and it doesn't really matter.
..Because it IS indeed 1.5" further forward. I didnt mention this before, but I will now:
When I measured my Hensley the other day, I measured it from trailer hitch ball, to BOTH the drawbar pin hole, and to the OEM receiver face ('cause I suspected there'd be some mixup in the measurements I got for the 3P, on whether to measure to pinhole or OEM receiver face). Well, my measurement to the OEM receiver face with the Hensley, was just over 21". Sooo, the 1.5" is indeed correct.
Quote:He is saying there is no difference in towing. IOW, there is no "improvement" in towing with the 3P compared to the HA.
What he said actually, was that there was no difference, in the specific rig he tested with. That does NOT mean that EVERY rig out there, would not see a difference. I believe the evidence you are quoting here amounts to what I've seen you call 'anecdotal', on many occasions. 
Bottom line, that we've confirmed here, is the following:
1. 3P drawbar is 1.5" shorter, so pivot point is 1.5" closer to rear axle of towbar.
2. Side link bars are essentially the same length, that does not change.
Any difference in towing stability from this, may well not be noticed in many cases. HOWEVER, having the pivot point 1.5" closer to the rear axle IS an improvement, in that it means less leverage the TT can put on the tow vehicle. Regardless whether that difference in leverage is actually 'felt' very well or not.
Will
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ksd
Medina, MN
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Joined: 10/22/2003
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Well, I just took the plunge and ordered a 3P hitch. It will be going on a used 2008 Salem LA 312QBSS that I am picking up next week. The trailer is 35'6" long with a GVWR of 11,000 pounds, so I decided that it made sense to invest in the very best anti-sway hitch I could find. I'll let y'all know how it works out. As soon as I install it, I'll be towing the trailer 1,000 miles back home, so I'll have plenty of windshield time to see how she behaves.
2008 Salem LA 312QBBS
2006 Suburban 2500 LT 8.1/4.10
Gear Vendors Under/Overdrive
BrakeSmart Controller
ProPride 3P hitch
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carringb
Corvallis, OR
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Joined: 07/28/2003
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I have not seen a ProPride, but I did have a Hensley for a while. Welding quality was poor. Lots of splatter, poor penetration.
I'd like like to hear what the ProPride owners think about the weld quality on their hitch.
Bryan
2000 Ford E350 DRW Wagon (14-pass all captains chairs)
V10 w/ Banks PowerPack, Diablo Predator, 4.56 LS, 230,000+ miles
Had: Weekend Warrior 41' FSW (still looking for its replacement)
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ksd
Medina, MN
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Joined: 10/22/2003
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carringb wrote:Had: Weekend Warrior 41' FSW (still looking for its replacement)
Holy Moly! Is that the thing in your sig pic? I don't think I've ever seen a bumper-pull trailer that big. The thing is monstrous? What did it weigh loaded?
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