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Dadoffourgirls
China, MI USA
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Joined: 05/29/2003
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Nomadac wrote:There are so many misconceptions and biases about Toyota, Honda and Nissan(because they are Japanese) and how they operate, their pay structure, treatment of workers both hourly and salary , engineering, manufacturing, etc. that it is pathetic.
I think you are close to the root cause. There are so many misconceptions and biases against any automotive manufacturer because most individuals have never been completely educated on the complete operations of these companies. You missed other key activities like logistics, franchising, government regulations, etc.
Dad of Four Girls
Wife
2001 Yukon XL (8.1L, 4.10)
2002 Dutchmen 31BH4DSL
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Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
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Joined: 11/14/2005
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Quote:I wasn't part of that conversation, but are you SERIOUS? All you can think of from the Detroit 3 that are great cars are the Camaro and G8?
No Malibu/Aura? Traverse/Enclave? CTS? STS? Corvette? Sky/Solstice? GTO? Lucerne? Fusion? Focus (granted they aren't as great at they were in ~05)? Edge? 300M? (OK, I can' think of another great mopar CAR...)
Sorry man, but you're way off. The D3 sure made some stinkers, even in recent years (Sebring, 500, Grand Prix, Uplander, Freestar, Caliber...) But so have the import guys (Accent, Rio, Rondo, Sentra, Yaris (reliability and mpg are its only virtues), xA...)
It was a comment about exciting new cars. Cars that bring people to dealerships and cars that they actually buy.
Malibu/Aura - Yawn. Aura looks to be dead along with Saturn soon. That about sums it up.
Traverse/Enclave/Edge - Nice vehicles but hardly exciting. They actually copy/benchmark the crossover SUV's that Toyota, Nissan and Honda had years prior.
CTS/STS - These cars are not cars that will save GM. It is like thinking Lincoln will put Ford in the black.
Corvette/Sky/Solstice - Niche cars. Once again, not cars that anchor a manufacturer. Solstice and Sky also appear good as dead.
Focus - Was a Civic beater until Ford let it rot until now showing a redesigned model. You can't sell essentially the same car with cosmetic changes for 10 years. Sorry.
Fusion - It is doing very well. That adds one exciting and desirable car that is legit to the Big 3 and coincidentally it belongs to the one not getting Government aid.
Lucerne - Not a big seller
GTO - Was an immense failure. So bad they changed it entirely and renamed it the G8 when it was reintroduced.
Who is way off?
Smoke 05 Titan SE CC 4X4
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Fast Mopar
Houston, TX
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Joined: 05/03/2005
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Keith99RS wrote:It was a comment about exciting new cars. Cars that bring people to dealerships and cars that they actually buy.
Malibu/Aura - Yawn. Aura looks to be dead along with Saturn soon. That about sums it up.
Traverse/Enclave/Edge - Nice vehicles but hardly exciting. They actually copy/benchmark the crossover SUV's that Toyota, Nissan and Honda had years prior.
CTS/STS - These cars are not cars that will save GM. It is like thinking Lincoln will put Ford in the black.
Corvette/Sky/Solstice - Niche cars. Once again, not cars that anchor a manufacturer. Solstice and Sky also appear good as dead.
Focus - Was a Civic beater until Ford let it rot until now showing a redesigned model. You can't sell essentially the same car with cosmetic changes for 10 years. Sorry.
Fusion - It is doing very well. That adds one exciting and desirable car that is legit to the Big 3 and coincidentally it belongs to the one not getting Government aid.
Lucerne - Not a big seller
GTO - Was an immense failure. So bad they changed it entirely and renamed it the G8 when it was reintroduced.
Who is way off?
In your own words, you say the Malibu is a yawn and the Fusion is exciting. I think I know who is way off.........
2004 Ford Freestar 4.2 liter
2003 Jayco Qwest 12A
preserve the Second Amendment
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dubdub07
Omaha, Nebraska
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Joined: 02/17/2009
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Variety is what we wanted, now we are bashing the big 3 for providing it. Not all carmakers have sexy cars. I think the Civic, Prius, Corolla, Element, all the Scions and most of the Hyundias are very ugly. But they have a niche. I would buy a G8 (and it's now gone forever) before an Accord. The big 3 is fighting image, not reality. The paradigm is in place for years to come and all we can do is ride it until things come full circle. Not every model is made for everyone. The hottest looking car on the road today is the Challenger SRT-8. Would I buy one? Can't, got kids and a big truck payment........my next car will be a small one for a kid, so I am stuck. I HAVE to buy something small and sexy and that will hold its value for the soon to be society's problem oldest child, so I am stuck with Civic or Corolla. Sucks, but that is the way it is.
2008 Durango 325BHS
2007 Dodge 2500QC 6.7 CTD, 6 sp auto, Ride-Rites, prodigy, Husky 16K slider.
Retired USAF Air Traffic Controller after 26yrs
Gotta keep em separated!
DW, Sons 17,11,5; Daughters 15,13,4
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dubdub07
Omaha, Nebraska
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Joined: 02/17/2009
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Keith99RS wrote:Quote:I wasn't part of that conversation, but are you SERIOUS? All you can think of from the Detroit 3 that are great cars are the Camaro and G8?
No Malibu/Aura? Traverse/Enclave? CTS? STS? Corvette? Sky/Solstice? GTO? Lucerne? Fusion? Focus (granted they aren't as great at they were in ~05)? Edge? 300M? (OK, I can' think of another great mopar CAR...)
Sorry man, but you're way off. The D3 sure made some stinkers, even in recent years (Sebring, 500, Grand Prix, Uplander, Freestar, Caliber...) But so have the import guys (Accent, Rio, Rondo, Sentra, Yaris (reliability and mpg are its only virtues), xA...)
It was a comment about exciting new cars. Cars that bring people to dealerships and cars that they actually buy.
Malibu/Aura - Yawn. Aura looks to be dead along with Saturn soon. That about sums it up.
Traverse/Enclave/Edge - Nice vehicles but hardly exciting. They actually copy/benchmark the crossover SUV's that Toyota, Nissan and Honda had years prior.
CTS/STS - These cars are not cars that will save GM. It is like thinking Lincoln will put Ford in the black.
Corvette/Sky/Solstice - Niche cars. Once again, not cars that anchor a manufacturer. Solstice and Sky also appear good as dead.
Focus - Was a Civic beater until Ford let it rot until now showing a redesigned model. You can't sell essentially the same car with cosmetic changes for 10 years. Sorry.
Fusion - It is doing very well. That adds one exciting and desirable car that is legit to the Big 3 and coincidentally it belongs to the one not getting Government aid.
Lucerne - Not a big seller
GTO - Was an immense failure. So bad they changed it entirely and renamed it the G8 when it was reintroduced.
Who is way off?
Dude, the G8 is an Australian design brought to the U.S. It has 4 doors. GTO was a 2 door sports sedan....totally different and unrelated.
Your opinions are opinions and they are what I defended while in the military; your right to voice them. You state the list as factual and the only fact based comment you made was wrong. I value your opinion, but remember, that's all it is.
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Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
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Joined: 11/14/2005
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dubdub07 wrote:Keith99RS wrote:Quote:I wasn't part of that conversation, but are you SERIOUS? All you can think of from the Detroit 3 that are great cars are the Camaro and G8?
No Malibu/Aura? Traverse/Enclave? CTS? STS? Corvette? Sky/Solstice? GTO? Lucerne? Fusion? Focus (granted they aren't as great at they were in ~05)? Edge? 300M? (OK, I can' think of another great mopar CAR...)
Sorry man, but you're way off. The D3 sure made some stinkers, even in recent years (Sebring, 500, Grand Prix, Uplander, Freestar, Caliber...) But so have the import guys (Accent, Rio, Rondo, Sentra, Yaris (reliability and mpg are its only virtues), xA...)
It was a comment about exciting new cars. Cars that bring people to dealerships and cars that they actually buy.
Malibu/Aura - Yawn. Aura looks to be dead along with Saturn soon. That about sums it up.
Traverse/Enclave/Edge - Nice vehicles but hardly exciting. They actually copy/benchmark the crossover SUV's that Toyota, Nissan and Honda had years prior.
CTS/STS - These cars are not cars that will save GM. It is like thinking Lincoln will put Ford in the black.
Corvette/Sky/Solstice - Niche cars. Once again, not cars that anchor a manufacturer. Solstice and Sky also appear good as dead.
Focus - Was a Civic beater until Ford let it rot until now showing a redesigned model. You can't sell essentially the same car with cosmetic changes for 10 years. Sorry.
Fusion - It is doing very well. That adds one exciting and desirable car that is legit to the Big 3 and coincidentally it belongs to the one not getting Government aid.
Lucerne - Not a big seller
GTO - Was an immense failure. So bad they changed it entirely and renamed it the G8 when it was reintroduced.
Who is way off?
Dude, the G8 is an Australian design brought to the U.S. It has 4 doors. GTO was a 2 door sports sedan....totally different and unrelated.
Your opinions are opinions and they are what I defended while in the military; your right to voice them. You state the list as factual and the only fact based comment you made was wrong. I value your opinion, but remember, that's all it is.
Umm so was the G8. It is the 4 door Holden Monaro, just like the GTO was the Monaro coupe. Did you even comprehend the "changed it enirely" potion of what I wrote? I'd say changing from a coupe to a 4 door sedan is a pretty big change.
Thank you for your service. I am currently serving.
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Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
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Joined: 11/14/2005
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Quote:In your own words, you say the Malibu is a yawn and the Fusion is exciting. I think I know who is way off.........
Which is selling and which isn't? Fusion is.
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dubdub07
Omaha, Nebraska
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Joined: 02/17/2009
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Keith99RS wrote:dubdub07 wrote:Keith99RS wrote:Quote:I wasn't part of that conversation, but are you SERIOUS? All you can think of from the Detroit 3 that are great cars are the Camaro and G8?
No Malibu/Aura? Traverse/Enclave? CTS? STS? Corvette? Sky/Solstice? GTO? Lucerne? Fusion? Focus (granted they aren't as great at they were in ~05)? Edge? 300M? (OK, I can' think of another great mopar CAR...)
Sorry man, but you're way off. The D3 sure made some stinkers, even in recent years (Sebring, 500, Grand Prix, Uplander, Freestar, Caliber...) But so have the import guys (Accent, Rio, Rondo, Sentra, Yaris (reliability and mpg are its only virtues), xA...)
It was a comment about exciting new cars. Cars that bring people to dealerships and cars that they actually buy.
Malibu/Aura - Yawn. Aura looks to be dead along with Saturn soon. That about sums it up.
Traverse/Enclave/Edge - Nice vehicles but hardly exciting. They actually copy/benchmark the crossover SUV's that Toyota, Nissan and Honda had years prior.
CTS/STS - These cars are not cars that will save GM. It is like thinking Lincoln will put Ford in the black.
Corvette/Sky/Solstice - Niche cars. Once again, not cars that anchor a manufacturer. Solstice and Sky also appear good as dead.
Focus - Was a Civic beater until Ford let it rot until now showing a redesigned model. You can't sell essentially the same car with cosmetic changes for 10 years. Sorry.
Fusion - It is doing very well. That adds one exciting and desirable car that is legit to the Big 3 and coincidentally it belongs to the one not getting Government aid.
Lucerne - Not a big seller
GTO - Was an immense failure. So bad they changed it entirely and renamed it the G8 when it was reintroduced.
Who is way off?
Dude, the G8 is an Australian design brought to the U.S. It has 4 doors. GTO was a 2 door sports sedan....totally different and unrelated.
Your opinions are opinions and they are what I defended while in the military; your right to voice them. You state the list as factual and the only fact based comment you made was wrong. I value your opinion, but remember, that's all it is.
Umm so was the G8. It is the 4 door Holden Monaro, just like the GTO was the Monaro coupe. Did you even comprehend the "changed it enirely" potion of what I wrote? I'd say changing from a coupe to a 4 door sedan is a pretty big change.
Thank you for your service. I am currently serving.
I think it is awesome you are serving, good for you!! Part of the 1.5% that join and serve in the military!!! That, my friend, is very cool.
Anyway, you explain it all wrong.......they "changed" nothing. It was a new car for a new segment. The GTO was not for the same buyer as a G8. The Monaro/GTO was a 2 door, the G8 was an existing design not changed entirely, or at all for that matter, to replace the GTO. That's like saying the Camero was changed entirely into the Malibu......
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Fast Mopar
Houston, TX
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Joined: 05/03/2005
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Keith99RS wrote:Which is selling and which isn't? Fusion is.
I guess I didn't realize that sales numbers boosted the exciting factor.
Regardless, thank you for your service to our country, Keith. I do sincerely appreciate it.
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SRockwood
San Diego
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Joined: 01/31/2007
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What's hilarious is how naive US citizens are. People talk of these factories taking advantage of foreign populations, but I see a line of people always waiting for a job at one of these plants. Obviously, the locals think otherwise, and when some celebrity speaks out against these plants, you think the locals are grateful?
People need to realize that $5/hour or even $1/hour is a helluva lot more money than the locals would make at other jobs. Everything's in the eye of the beholder. Not everyone has 4 car payments, a $4k/month mortgage, three computers with their own dedicated Internet connection, 4 TVs with 900 cable channels and Coach purses to buy.
I have my own reasons for wanting to keep these jobs here, but not a single one of them even comes close to feeling sorry for those people.
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