|
|
| Tow Vehicles Related Tips |
|
|
|
P R N D 2 1
Utah
Full Member
Joined: 09/21/2004
View Profile
|
blt2ski wrote:Actually Will,
There is one person on here that was called to a civil court for pulling a 19K trailer with a SW 8 lug Dodge........Killed someone.....
The family and insurance company for the dead man went after the person in civil court for being over GCWR etc. The Dodge(I probably should not be using brand of rig, but.....) driver was not found to be breaking any laws, and was not cited! The Drivers attny found MANY case laws that showed the manufacturew GCWR, GVWR, GAWR had NOTHING to do with guilt, safety etc. In the end, the family and insurance company had to pay the drivers attorny's fee's etc. In the end, the fact that the dead guy pulled out in front of the truck and trailer with no room for the pickup to stop was the main issue. The fact he was over GCWR had NOTHING to do with anything.
I also went back thru the stuck weights thread above, not one of the LEO's that does weights and measures work said that manufactures numbers had to be followed, in fact one, Wadcutter mentioned, it did not matter at all!
While I will not recommend one drive over there manufactures amounts, it is not illegal to do so!
Marty
It is in Utah, and likely every where else, no one else wanted to search.
Utah Code Annotated 72-7-404 Maximum gross weight limitation for vehicles -- Bridge formula for weight limitations -- Minimum mandatory fines.
...(b)The tire load rating shall be marked on the tire sidewall. A tire, wheel, or axle may not carry a greater weight than the manufacturer's rating.
|
kaydeejay
SE Michigan, USA
Senior Member
Joined: 07/26/2004
View Profile
 Offline
|
American Made wrote:Towing a 10,100 lb trailer would appear to be fine, but if it weighs 11,000 lbs the sky is going to fall in. . . Towing a 10,100# trailer may be fine PROVIDED THERE IS NOTHING BUT A 150# DRIVER IN THE TRUCK.
Go and read your Toyota towing guide if you don't believe me - that 10,100# has to be reduced by everything in the truck except that 150# driver.
And if (according to your first post) the trailer empty is 10,000#, I suggest loaded it will be a LOT more than 11,000#
You are probably even more overloaded than you thought.
Keith J, Retired from GM Engineering
1999 Sunnybrook 27RKFS Fiver
2005 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLE 2WD/CC/SB/DA, 52 gal Titan tank, Bilsteins, Line-X, Westin steps, Prodigy, Retrax, 16K Superglide, 5th-Airborne pin box, Multi-vex mirrors, TST TPMS.
|
SRockwood
San Diego
Senior Member
Joined: 01/31/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
American Made wrote:If the internals are indeed Dana 70, then the axle itself is not to be considered a weak link.
Re-read my post. Axleshafts, ring gear and differential don't entirely make up an axle. Your weakpoint isn't the axleshafts or the diff, it's the lack of full-floating bearings and only 5 lugs. 5 lugs means only about 150k-ish psi of total shear strength (if I remember my materials course stuff). With 7000lbs on it, that's about 20g worth of impact before it breaks. With some padding, figure 30g? While not extreme, that's not that far out of the realm of possibility for an impact.
|
American Made
Northwestern Ontario
Full Member
Joined: 05/10/2009
View Profile
Offline
|
SRockwood wrote:American Made wrote:If the internals are indeed Dana 70, then the axle itself is not to be considered a weak link.
Re-read my post. Axleshafts, ring gear and differential don't entirely make up an axle. Your weakpoint isn't the axleshafts or the diff, it's the lack of full-floating bearings and only 5 lugs. 5 lugs means only about 150k-ish psi of total shear strength (if I remember my materials course stuff). With 7000lbs on it, that's about 20g worth of impact before it breaks. With some padding, figure 30g? While not extreme, that's not that far out of the realm of possibility for an impact.
The material that the lug is made from, and it's diameter, also need to be calculated when determining the shear strength of wheel lugs. The common problem is loose lug nuts, in virtually all cases where gross overloading is not the issue (eg 2-3X rated capacity, not 15-20% over rated cap.)
The need to have fully floating bearings has to do with bearing lubrication and cooling. By far the greatest source of heat on a bearing is the heat generated on the disc (or drum) during breaking. You might want to take another look at the Tundra Brakes: these are large discs with a large cooling capacity, thereby limiting the impact of this factor on the bearing.
I would like to thank the people who took the time to make some good points and thoughtful posts. The legal eagles who do make up the weight police are, however, cheerfully invited to piss up a rope.
2007 Tundra DC Limited 4X4
LT E range BFG tires, Firestone air bags,
Warn winch. JBL 10 spkr 440 watt stereo with Sirius.
Various performance and convenience mods.
Towing 2005 Keystone Cougar 314EFS
Backwoods camping powered by Honda EU 3000 is
|
atvanish
Central PA
Senior Member
Joined: 01/09/2007
View Profile
Offline
|
my .02 - ALL of the newer trucks are good trucks (and yes - I'm a Dodge Fan) and know there is good and bad with them all... So I'm NOT here to bash your truck. I think Toyota makes some good vehicles.
I am still in disbelief that you're that close to your limits... Please post the numbers when you take it across the scale.
My 07 ram is over it's GVWR w/ a 800lb tongue (6K trailer) ready to camp (w/ family, firewood, ect) so I'm certainly not 'weight police' - but more of a 'common sense' police... going over GVWR by a few hundred pounds is one thing - but IMHO going over GAWR isn't a good thing.
2004 Dodge Durango Limited, 4x4 Hemi, 3.55
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 Laramie, 4x4, Hemi, 3.92
2005 Dutchman Lite 27B
|
|
|
TXiceman
(Near) Houston,TX
Senior Member
Joined: 11/17/2000
View Profile
Offline
|
AS Forest Gump said...Stupid is as stupid does.
As noted above, Toyota makes a great truck. If they had a 3/4 or 1 ton diesel, I'd be down looking at one...but there is no reason to so grossly overload a truck and then brag about it.
Ken
KE5DFR
Vintage 1979 Silver Streak Supreme Rocket toted by a 2002 F350, crewcab dually, 7.3L,4.10 axle,SCMT. Travel with two miniature Schnauzers and one African Gray parrot. Practicing for retirement!
|
Fast Mopar
Houston, TX
Senior Member
Joined: 05/03/2005
View Profile
|
American Made wrote:The legal eagles who do make up the weight police are, however, cheerfully invited to piss up a rope.
At least it's a cheerful invitation.
2004 Ford Freestar 4.2 liter
2003 Jayco Qwest 12A
preserve the Second Amendment
|
Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
Senior Member
Joined: 11/14/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
Quote:The material that the lug is made from, and it's diameter, also need to be calculated when determining the shear strength of wheel lugs. The common problem is loose lug nuts, in virtually all cases where gross overloading is not the issue (eg 2-3X rated capacity, not 15-20% over rated cap.)
The need to have fully floating bearings has to do with bearing lubrication and cooling. By far the greatest source of heat on a bearing is the heat generated on the disc (or drum) during breaking. You might want to take another look at the Tundra Brakes: these are large discs with a large cooling capacity, thereby limiting the impact of this factor on the bearing.
I would like to thank the people who took the time to make some good points and thoughtful posts. The legal eagles who do make up the weight police are, however, cheerfully invited to piss up a rope.
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you? That or you bought a salesmans babble hook line and sinker.
Lugs - You are comparing 5 to 8. Don't you think there is a reason that the larger the axle weight carry rating, the more lugs on the axle? Go look at an 18 wheeler or any heavey hauler. Larger studs do not reduce stress on the ALUMINUM rims either. Looking over a Tundra's lugs and my Titan's I am hard pressed to see any significant size difference that would amount to any shear strength advantage.
BTW most trucks now have disc brakes. Also your full float axle is designed to support a heavier load. Did you happen to otice what applications run full float axles in your research? Drum heat is almost irreleant any how as it is only at the outer end of the axle. In all honesty your rear brakes should not be getting that hot to start with. If someones brakes get so hot they cause a bearing failure, there are other forces at work.
I will repeat this one more time for you. Your internals are irrelevent if the housing will not support the weight. Go look up some info on the F350 and compare it to the F450. Totally different axle housings, yet the internals are not all that different.
Smoke 05 Titan SE CC 4X4
K&N panel filter
PRG 2.5" Leveling kit
Bilstein front,Icon rear shocks
Powerstop slotted rotors
18" Wrangler AT/S LT's
2009 Fleetwood Prowler 2702BS
Primus Brake Controller
Reese DC w/ 1,000lb/10,000lb WD
|
hone eagle
essex ontario canada
Senior Member
Joined: 11/18/2004
View Profile
|
Keith99RS wrote:Quote:The material that the lug is made from, and it's diameter, also need to be calculated when determining the shear strength of wheel lugs. The common problem is loose lug nuts, in virtually all cases where gross overloading is not the issue (eg 2-3X rated capacity, not 15-20% over rated cap.)
The need to have fully floating bearings has to do with bearing lubrication and cooling. By far the greatest source of heat on a bearing is the heat generated on the disc (or drum) during breaking. You might want to take another look at the Tundra Brakes: these are large discs with a large cooling capacity, thereby limiting the impact of this factor on the bearing.
I would like to thank the people who took the time to make some good points and thoughtful posts. The legal eagles who do make up the weight police are, however, cheerfully invited to piss up a rope.
You really have no idea what you are talking about do you? That or you bought a salesmans babble hook line and sinker.
Lugs - You are comparing 5 to 8. Don't you think there is a reason that the larger the axle weight carry rating, the more lugs on the axle? Go look at an 18 wheeler or any heavey hauler. Larger studs do not reduce stress on the ALUMINUM rims either. Looking over a Tundra's lugs and my Titan's I am hard pressed to see any significant size difference that would amount to any shear strength advantage.
BTW most trucks now have disc brakes. Also your full float axle is designed to support a heavier load. Did you happen to otice what applications run full float axles in your research? Drum heat is almost irreleant any how as it is only at the outer end of the axle. In all honesty your rear brakes should not be getting that hot to start with. If someones brakes get so hot they cause a bearing failure, there are other forces at work.
I will repeat this one more time for you. Your internals are irrelevent if the housing will not support the weight. Go look up some info on the F350 and compare it to the F450. Totally different axle housings, yet the internals are not all that different.
I'am embarassed this guy is a fellow Canadian ,and a newb to boot should of lurked for a while to get the 'feel of the place'
99 F250 PSD bilstiens. bone stock otherwise
2002 Triple E 30' 5th
|
Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
Senior Member
Joined: 11/14/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
Quote:I'am embarassed this guy is a fellow Canadian ,and a newb to boot should of lurked for a while to get the 'feel of the place'
Feel for the place would not have prevented what he is hearing. I do get the feeling he lurked before posting as well. If you are going to do something like pull a trailer that is about 1,700lbs over the TOW rating for your truck, let alone in all likely hood if set up right eceeding payload by leaps and bounds you should accept the consequences. Also add in his assumptions on the rear axle, what an E rated tire will do and ignoring what is stated right in the literature that came with his airbags about their installation and affect on load ratings. He "researched" enough to be dangerous.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
