mscamping
any place, USA
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TT, you should find a sheet that tells you all of the information.. In the closet, washer area, or in the bathroom somewhere.. Good luck.. You could go to there web and get into archives too.. If you get that coach, take a hard look at the Holiday Rambler Reacreational Vehicle Club,(there web is www.HRRVC.net) we have tons of fun.. PM me if you have questions..
Mike..
* This post was
edited 10/28/09 04:38pm by mscamping *
2003 Holiday Rambler Neptune 36 PBD 38' - ISB 300 Cummins w/Allison MH2000 5 speed
2009 HHR w/Blue Ox Aventa II & SMI Stay-n-Play Duo
FMCA - HRRVC - Chapters - 56,57,& 419 - Good Sam Life Member - Coach Net - 3/4 timers
Mike & Sharon
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Deen
Vancouver, WA
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Joined: 12/07/2000
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dentmac wrote:Blue Bird has 17,000 front, 23,000 drive and 13,000 tag. Weight distribution is a big problem and there is a recall underway in part moving the genset from the front to 1/2 way back. Advertised CCC was 3800. In fact was 1000 before the recall. The recall has increased the axle ratings and removed structural steel to lighten the rig.
4500 lbs of CCC in any 2 axle , 4 slide RV does not happen.
4 /6 separate wheel weights is the way to go. At least individual axles and realize that side to side can be 1000 lbs different which may overload the tires.
Tire pressure must be suitable for the heaviest side load (and equal pressure for both side But you can't legally use that 23,000# axle rating on most roads so subtract 3,000#'s for the CCC.
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mccartydwight
Hansville, WA
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I think you have enough info to calculate the CCC and its definition. Being a newbie I looked at all the bin capacity on my 04 Monaco La Palma, 36', WDD on W22 chassis, 8.1 enging.
But whoa! The CCC posted on the back of the bathroom mirror is 840 lbs. But that is with two people at 154 lbs each. I weigh 260 and my wife 180, whoops! Then there is the add ons of Davis Tru Track, heavy duty stablizer bars front and rear, Even Brake compressor, etc and all of a sudden the CCC is down, way down!
By the time we loaded clothes, shoes, personal care items, dog food, dog crate, kitchen furnishings, foodstuffs, etc. we were well over max gross. I had also loaded bins with various and sundry items. Went on the scale and WOW, 23,200 lbs on a 22,000 chassis! So I now load everyting in the bins into the Toad (and keep it to a max of 4,000 lbs by the book) and I am sure I am still over gross.
Oh, and don't forget, if you load those bins at the very rear of the coach you are exerting excessive lbs on the rear axle due to the foot-lbs effect.
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dentmac
Southern Ontario, Canada
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In 2008 NHTSA changed the rules for dealers that REQUIRES them to redo the sticker in a coach if they modify the weight of the RV over 100lbs.
The sticker in these newer coaches is OCCC where the weight of the passengers and water is part of the cargo.
The manufacturer does not have to weigh EVERY rig -- so the numbers on the sticker can be (and usually are VERY optimistic.)
You are correct in that the standard of 154 lbs per person is ridiculous.
Also note that in a pusher, the 616 lbs of passengers puts 603 lbs on the front axle. and 13 lbs on the rear axle.
One more-- Often the placard is the bays are for the vertical segment of the coach I.E. in the bay and above the floor in the vertical section above that bay. A sticker on each side (curb side and road side) does not necessarily mean that you add them for total bay limit. It does sometimes mean -- TOTAL (curb and road side.)
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SacsTC
N. California
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TurboTurtle wrote:Newbie question:
This is the carrying capacity, right? In looking at brochures that give the GVWR and the GCWR, so you just subtract the latter from the former to get the CCC?
For example: 2007 Endeavor Class A:
GVWR: 33,000 lbs.
GCWR: 43,000 lbs.
Total CCC = 10,000 lbs? And, is that with, like, all water/propane/gas tank full? When looking to "make sure that there's enough CCC" for full timing, what's the basic formula?
TIA!
That 10,000 lbs is your towing capacity on that rig.
On ours, the sticker people are talking about is located in the medicine cabinet in the bath.
We have right at 2000 lbs Cargo Carrying Capacity
2007 Monaco Diplomat 400HP Cummins ISL
2006 Chevy Silverado 345HP 6.0 VortecMax
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Turbo Turtle
see above
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WOW! Thanks! So helpful!
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Dick A
Spokane
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One issue to be very aware and careful about is overloading axles. After recently purchasing our new Tiffin Allegro Bus and finding the front axle was already overweight right off the assembly line it is of little comfort to have a CCC of over 8,000 lbs.  Even the wheels were rated too low for the weight on the front tires.
The issue is yet to be resolved however a little research has shown it is not a new issue and is certain ally not isolated to a couple manufacturers. Quite frankly, I think the Internet forums are allowing us customers to share information so more are becoming aware of the problems. I'm sure there are many coach owners who have no idea they have overweight axles. Others whom I have spoken with seem to be totally ambivalent about the problem and their coach weight.
Considering engineers use computer design programs and prototype coaches are built, there is little excuse for this problem to exist. It appears that the manufacturers have been able to sell these products knowing full well the situating and have done little for the few who have complained as it has been difficult to share these issues in the past.
2009 Tiffin 43QBP
US Gear UTB
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wallynm
Los Alamos NM
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Joined: 09/27/2000
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My Standard CCC and tire pressure Discussion
CCC is defined as the weight of the motor home plus the weight of the engine fluids, fuel, full tank of water, LP gas and four passengers @154 lbs. each (for my DSDP) subtracted from the GVWR (31,000). The sticker in my Motor Home gave me the following information. All weights are in lbs.
Dry Weight 23160
Weight with engine fluids, fuel 700
115 gals of water 958
LP Gas 144
4 passengers@154 each 616
Total Weight 25578
CCC is listed as 5422 or 31000 lb. - 25578 lb.
The sticker further states that any other installed options, dealer installed options, and hitch weight would reduce the CCC.
We run tubeless Michelin XZA1 -275/70R-22.5 LRG on 22.5X8.5 inch wheels with 10 bolt lugs on 11.25 inch diameter bolt centers.
Freightliner specs the tires and wheels @ 120 psi max.
Newmar specs the tires @ 115 psi max.
Michelin specs the tires @ 131 psi max @ 6945 lbs. load max in single configuration and 123 psi max @ 6495 in dual configuration.
I assume the Newmar spec is designed not to exceed the 12,000 lbs. front and the 19,000 rear axle ratings.
9/18/02
Cat scale axle weights
Status of fluids at time of weighing we had a ~1/4 tank of water for ~250 lb., ½ tank of LP for ~ 70 lb., about a ¼ gray and black water for ~ 200 lb.. Of course we were full of fuel and “engine fluids”. In addition we carry things like a mounted spare, 20 ton jack, three drawer tool chest, normal food items, clothes, ~100 music CD’s, bottled water and the bride and I( we average a little more than 154 lb. each). I am assuming that the two extra 6 volt batteries and 2000 watt inverter were included in the dry weight of the motor home.
The axle weights were as follows:
Front axle is rated at 12000 lb. and weighed 9840 lb. So we still have 2160 lb. in reserve.
Rear axle is rated at 19000 lb. and weighed 16700 lb. So we still have 2300 lb. in reserve
Total weight was 26540 lb. reserve was 4460 lb. which means we could travel with full fresh water, more of every thing else and still be within the CCC.
At the time we were towing a Ford Contour on a Demco tow dolly and those axles weighed in at 3580 lb. That probably added ~150 lb. at the hitch. The CGVW was 30120 lbs. or 10880 lbs in reserve.
3/30/04
RVSEF Four corner weights
Status of fluids at time of weighing we had a ~1/2 tank of water for ~500 lb., 1/4 tank of LP for ~ 30 lb., about and ~ 1/2 gray and 1/4 black water for ~300 lbs, and ~7/8 fuel and “engine fluids”.
The weights were as follows:
Driver side front = 4,800 lbs.
Passenger side front = 5,300
Total front = 10,100 or 1,900 lbs. in reserve with + 500 lbs on the passenger side
Driver side rear = 8,600 lbs.
Passenger side rear = 8,500 lbs.
Total rear 17,100 or 1,900 in reserve with + 100 lbs on the driver side
Total weight = 27,200 or 3,800 in reserve
No tow vehicle was attached.
6/30/04
Cat scale axle weights
The axle weights were as follows:
Front axle rated at 12000 lb. and weighed 10100 lb. So we still have 1900 lb. in reserve.
Rear axle rated at 19000 lb. and weighed 16760 lb. So we still have 2240 lb. in reserve
Total weight was 26860lb. reserve was 4140 lb. which means we could travel with full fresh water, more of every thing else and still be within the CCC.
At the time we were towing a Chevy Suburban that weight 5720 lbs. That probably added ~10 lb. at the hitch. Total GCVW was 32580 lbs with 8420 in reserve
4/8/05
RVSEF Four corner weights
Status of fluids at time of weighing we had a ~1/2 tank of water for ~500 lb., ½ tank of LP for ~ 70 lb., about a ¼ gray and black water for ~ 200 lb. I did not record fuel and “engine fluids”.
The weights were as follows:
Driver side front = 5300 lbs.
Passenger side front = 4950
Total front = 10,250 or 1,750 lbs. in reserve with + 350 on the driver side
Driver side rear = 8,250 lbs.
Passenger side rear = 9,150 lbs.
Total rear 17,400 or 1,600 in reserve with + 900 on the passenger side
Total weight = 27,650 or 3,350 in reserve
Towing Mustang but no toad weights.
As you can see the weights move around a little from driver to passenger side. The Bride and I were in our seats each time we got the weights. We have generally been fairly stable so based on the Michelin latest inflation's table we run 100 psi in the front and 85 in the rear.
Turbo Turtle wrote:Newbie question:
This is the carrying capacity, right? In looking at brochures that give the GVWR and the GCWR, so you just subtract the latter from the former to get the CCC?
For example: 2007 Endeavor Class A:
GVWR: 33,000 lbs.
GCWR: 43,000 lbs.
Total CCC = 10,000 lbs? And, is that with, like, all water/propane/gas tank full? When looking to "make sure that there's enough CCC" for full timing, what's the basic formula?
TIA!
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Have a Cat Engine Yahoo Group or Cat RV Club Web Page
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2002 DSDP 3567 PUSHED BY KITTY KAT
THOSE THAT DO NOT KNOW HISTORY ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT
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frankdamp
Anacortes, WA
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In the airplane business, we had another number to worry about - running load per foot. I remember one 767 customer who wanted to go 8 abreast seating instead of the designed 7 across and to shorten the pitch (the distance between the same point on each seat) from the standard 33 to 30 inches. We were able to configure things so the customer got what they wanted and they got 328 people into a 767-300.
They were flying charter flights from Dusseldorf (Germany) to Los Angeles, non stop. Flight duration approached 11 hours and they had five lavs for 328 people! We even had to reduce the assumed number of flushes per lav per hour and the assumed number of times people used the on-board drinking water fountains by about 30 percent to get the thing within limits.
I sure wouldn't have liked to fly on that one, though I'm sure they fudged things once they got the airplanes in service. They could weigh each passenger (I've been on smaller commercial flights where they did that) and their carry-on bags, and do all kinds of creative book-keeping.
Bottom line - there are all sorts of creative ways of getting round the weight limits, but you have to know what they are and what the manufacturer has already soaked up.
Frank Damp
Anacortes, WA
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dentmac
Southern Ontario, Canada
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Dick A
Consider getting certified weights and sending the specs to Tiffin. If they don't upgrade the front axle and wheels/tires, send a complaint to NHTSA. The tires/wheels cannot be over rated load at all. Unbelievably, they are not as strict about the GAWR but very much by GVWR or tire loading.
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