blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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David_in_TX wrote:This is misinformation. Tow ratings have nothing at all to do with warranties. Tow ratings and weight ratings are calculated by engineers based on strength of materials, powertrain performance, etc. I think this your opinion. If you disagree with me, then back it up with something published on an official manufacturers web site.
skipnchar wrote:Tow ratings are basically warranty issues
David,
Why don't you show us where GCWR's are not anything more than warranty issues. If one can change a GCWR by going to a different axel ratio, ie a 3.73 to 4.10 and get say 500-2000 lbs, pretty normal depending upon the motor etc. That tells me it is nothing more than go power, or a warranty issue. Nothing safety related. The GM can surely run down the road at 20K no different than the Ford, just put a comparable motor etc to Bryans E350, and GM would be equal this way.
The state patrol in my state, do not follow the manufactures numbers as being legal. BOTH gvwr, gcwr and axel ratings for that matter! Only my paid for registration!
Your comment can go both ways as to what is correct or not!
Marty
05 Chev CC D/A LS Dooley
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cmizikar
Portage, MI
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carringb wrote:cmizikar wrote:carringb wrote:3) traction. Try a Ford vs Chevy in the snow, and you will see a huge advantage with the Ford.
With the factory tires on the GM van, I think any car/van/truck can do better then the Chevy in snow. I can not wait until the current tires wear out so I can get a tire that does better in snow.
I really like the Toyo M55 tires for snow. They were designed for the logging industry, but are great for snow. I had mine center siped and studded for ice, but even un-altered they have great traction.
Downside is fuel economy. I take about a 15% fuel economy hit when I have the m55s on compared to my summer Open County A/Ts. The Open County ATs are decent on snow but terrible on ice.
Bryan,
Thanks for the suggestions. I think the Toyo M55 may be more of a winter tire then I need. The Open Country ATs sound like more of a fit.
The majority of my driving is on paved roads so I just need something to get me down the road until the snow plow has a chance to go thru or get me thru the snow pile at the intersection after a snow plow has gone thru. This just shows how bad the stock factory tires are.
chuck
2008 GMC 2500 Savana
2008 Pigrim 28 PQB
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carringb
Corvallis, OR
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If you do go with the Open COuntry ATs, I would recomend having them siped. That improves traction on ice, which is really that tire's only major deficiency (that and sand... they won't clear out low speeds... next time I'm at the dunes I'll have the M55s on for sure). I think the rubber compound harden's too much in cold weather. But the sipes seem to make up for that pretty well.
Bryan
2000 Ford E350 DRW Wagon (14-pass all captains chairs)
V10 w/ Banks PowerPack, Diablo Predator, 4.56 LS, 250,000+ miles
Had: Weekend Warrior 41' FSW
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David_in_TX
Grand Prairie, Texas
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I already have shown you this, and I am not about to go thru that exercise again. I already have spent waaaaaaay to much time trying to educate people on this forum on how engineers do their jobs (I know firsthand about this since I am an engineer myself). Look at this old thread if you want me to reply, and yes I have answered every question with facts and given official references to back my facts up, including state laws:
http://www.trailerlife.com/cforum/index.........d/23158808/gotomsg/23171767.cfm#23171767
For everyone who didn't witness this past thread, blt2ski was one of the posters who disputed my knowledge and experience in this area.
blt2ski wrote:David_in_TX wrote:This is misinformation. Tow ratings have nothing at all to do with warranties. Tow ratings and weight ratings are calculated by engineers based on strength of materials, powertrain performance, etc. I think this your opinion. If you disagree with me, then back it up with something published on an official manufacturers web site.
skipnchar wrote:Tow ratings are basically warranty issues
David,
Why don't you show us where GCWR's are not anything more than warranty issues. If one can change a GCWR by going to a different axel ratio, ie a 3.73 to 4.10 and get say 500-2000 lbs, pretty normal depending upon the motor etc. That tells me it is nothing more than go power, or a warranty issue. Nothing safety related. The GM can surely run down the road at 20K no different than the Ford, just put a comparable motor etc to Bryans E350, and GM would be equal this way.
The state patrol in my state, do not follow the manufactures numbers as being legal. BOTH gvwr, gcwr and axel ratings for that matter! Only my paid for registration!
Your comment can go both ways as to what is correct or not!
Marty
http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidnicholstx
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Wishin
Grand Rapids, MI
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SoCalDesertRider wrote:The 6 speeds have lower 1st and second gearing and an additional overdrive gear, but 1:1 is still 1:1 and if you still have the same axle gearing and hp/tq output, the towing power is still the same in direct gear. The extra high 6th overdrive ratio doesn't help towing a bit without going to a lower axle ratio to make better use of the first 5 gears. The lower ratio 1st and 2nd do help get it started though.
It does not have an extra high overdrive. The final OD is pretty much the same. 1st gear is much lower and the ratios are closer together.
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LAdams
Northern Illinois
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blt2ski wrote:David,
Why don't you show us where GCWR's are not anything more than warranty issues. If one can change a GCWR by going to a different axle ratio, ie a 3.73 to 4.10 and get say 500-2000 lbs, pretty normal depending upon the motor etc. That tells me it is nothing more than go power, or a warranty issue. Nothing safety related. The GM can surely run down the road at 20K no different than the Ford, just put a comparable motor etc to Bryans E350, and GM would be equal this way.
The state patrol in my state, do not follow the manufactures numbers as being legal. BOTH gvwr, gcwr and axel ratings for that matter! Only my paid for registration!
Your comment can go both ways as to what is correct or not!
Marty
Marty,
Well you and I haven't been in a good discussion for some time so here goes - I disagree - your posts are always slanted toward the rules and regulations as they relate to commercial towing and how you tow most of the time in your business - and then you apply that toward the RV type truck trailer and it ain't the same thing, at least as far as law enforcement is concerned, so let's call a spade a spade here...
I also disagree with Skip and his comments regarding GCWR/GVWR being only warranty issues... I believe that those rating are there for a reason as far as vehicle performance and safety are concerned... We all know we can tow over the ratings and get away with it, at least for a while, and we all know that it is very unlikely that an RV type truck/trailer will ever be pulled over for anything other than a very flagrant traffic violation...
All the above said, I can't prove my point regarding my position on GCWR/GVWR and I don't think Skip can prove his point either, so this may have to be an unresolved issue... However, saying that GVWR/GCWR are just warranty numbers "implies" that one can go over these ratings without issue, and I don't think that is a responsible way to explain things, especially as it applies to those who are new at towing and could possible get in over their head in a hurry...
My thoughts FWTW  ...
Les
2000 Ford F-250SD, XLT, 4X4 Off Road, SuperCab
w/ 6.8L (415 C.I.) V-10/3:73LS/4R100
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SoCalDesertRider
SanDiego, CA, USA
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Wishin wrote:SoCalDesertRider wrote:The 6 speeds have lower 1st and second gearing and an additional overdrive gear, but 1:1 is still 1:1 and if you still have the same axle gearing and hp/tq output, the towing power is still the same in direct gear. The extra high 6th overdrive ratio doesn't help towing a bit without going to a lower axle ratio to make better use of the first 5 gears. The lower ratio 1st and 2nd do help get it started though.
It does not have an extra high overdrive. The final OD is pretty much the same. 1st gear is much lower and the ratios are closer together.
Both those transmissions have extra high OD ratios.
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SoCalDesertRider
SanDiego, CA, USA
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GCWR is largely based on engine power output and rpm range, transmission and axle strength and transmission and axle gearing and tire diameter.
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BarneyS
S.E. Lower Michigan
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I agree 100% with the statement by LAdams!
Barney
2004 Sunnybrook 30FKS TT
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blt2ski
Kirkland, Wa
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Unfortunately the links david gave us, say....... for the GM upfit manufacture or equal must follow FMVSS rules, ie fed government rules or........yep "warranty is voided" hmmm sorry to be wrong. I did not look at the dodge or ford info, but would expect the same wording to be used.
So the manufacture ratings, do as skip mentions in more ways than one, voids warranty if exceeded. State rules are what they are, again, here where I am, the manufacture ratings are warranty issues only, not what needs to be followed. I am sure somewhere along the line, ALL of the parts and pieces need to be engineered to meet a certain standard. GCWR is an of itself, only a go power performance issue. Even the new standards coming out, may or may not allow one to do what I or anyone else wants a rig to do. IE go up a 30% grade at rated GCW. Max they are going to test for from what I have read is 12%. I have to go up a 15% grade to get to my house! so I stall out on the way home!?!?!?!?! yep, been there done that below GCWR ratings on a few rigs.
To the OP for the tires.
I find the M55's are better than the Toyo ATs that were siped I had on before. If you want an AT tire, look at the Cooper ATR or AT, they had better traction when comparing AT style treads.
Marty
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