v10superduty
NW Ont.,Canada
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quote from Don
To address the OP the main sticking points with Ford are not pay and benefits but the no strike clause for pay/benefits for the next six years and the new hires pay being frozen at $14.00 per hour for six years! They top out at $21.00 with reduced benefits and no Company sponsored retirement. Now they want to hold them at $14.00 PH for six years but everyone else will get pay increases, I don’t think so!
Don
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Don, do you think there will be anybody willing to take these new jobs at only $14 knowing they are locked in for 6 years??
My bet would be --YES--
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Keith99RS
Suffield, CT
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Quote:In ten+ years at Chrysler I have only had to call the Union out two times, both times Area Managers intervened on my behalf because they know I do my job and I do it well.
So what exactly is the Union doing for you for the money they take from you? 2 issues in 10 years is not horrible. It is probaby less than the norm. I am also failing to see your point about a company rehiring a slug worker to avoid concessions. The way it reads, you are saying the company rehired the worker to avoid dealing with the Union. That would fall under the catagory of maintaining an inferior workforce due to the Union. Same with having a abitrating process to release bad employees. With no documentation it is equally hard to dismiss someone that is nonUnion if they get a lawyer and dispute it. SO what exactly is the Union protecting you from again?
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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Perrysburg Boy,
My personal wealth, incomes, any compensations, ownings, holdings, etc are none of your business and you will never know! Besides. I'm retired! Hint, jealousy is not very becoming...
If you had read, you'd know that I did not work for any company or corporation directly. I had posted the info more than a dozen times in various threads that you had come back with your derogatory comments over just the past year alone. Also, in this thread which your usual misleading comment was directed to. I owned my own engineering company/companies and worked with Ford, GM, and Chrysler, and several tier 1 suppliers for decades per invite. Also for 3 of the transplants on projects THEY invited us to work on. My operation was to complete, lead, or assist with in the (design, engineering, prototyping, testing and certification, and assist or follow the tooling procurement/design/build. Mainly on chassis structures, drive lines, and components/assemblies used in the final build of all sizes of pickup trucks, vans, and SUV's.
My company as well as so many others I can name had cut off and refused to do work with Chrysler Corp several years ago because they were ridiculous in paying their supplier invoices. Especially in tooling and technological support. I and so many others have the hard printed documents to back up these words but you will never see them as it's also none of your business. Mind you that at the same time Chrysler was publicly claiming they were so profitable and had so many billions in on-hand cash. How much cash would you have on hand if you didn't pay your obligations for 3 months to a year???
Normal payment timing terms for GM was 30 to 45 days from invoice date, Ford was 45 to 60 days, and Chrysler was 90 days to over a year after claiming they lost or never received etc the invoice at least once. Funny that GM and Ford never used that lame excuse! Read between the lines! Unpaid invoices are a major expense to companies since the costs incurred in supplying the products or services had already been paid for by using the suppliers line of credit with accrued on going interest charges continously added on. Chrysler projects usually became money losers by the time Chrysler paid up and the suppliers aren't stupid! As a result, Chrysler was reduced to purchasing from the lower quality suppliers and a simple look and the documented and published vehicle quality ratings and frequency of repair statistics will make you wiser.
I'm neither a unoin supporter nor a union basher. I'd rather print the truth than try to make brass look like gold! You and many others on this forum have been staunch union cheerleaders for many years that I've been a member under more than one member name over the years. Like over 6+ years.
The UAW had better get it right with their dealing with Ford or there will be many ramifications....
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mowermech
Billings, MT
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I am well aware that it is considered rude and uncouth to point out the spelling/grammatical/ word usage problems of others (especially when my perfection is more than a little bit lacking), but some of you REALLY need to do more proof-reading before you hit the "post message" button!
You present yourself as successful businessmen, with excellent educations, but your posts make you sound like a high school drop-out who is barely smart enough to use a muck-stick.
Yes, I understand that typographical errors happen. I make a LOT of them. BUT, I endeavor to proof-read my posts, to correct them. I don't always find all of them, and sometimes I have to edit to make corrections.
Right or wrong, you are judged by the way you write or speak. Unless, of course, you are a billionaire, then it makes no difference.
If you claim to be nearly a "senior citizen", and retired early because you were very successful in business, it might be best if you sounded like it!
Now, please understand, I really don't care how you present yourself. I am presenting this for your consideration, just trying to be helpful, with a sincere desire to assist you in presenting yourself to the world as what you are claiming to be. If you don't care how the world sees you, you are, of course, free to ignore this post.
As for the UAW, they are not alone. ALL unions need to be careful. The sun is setting on them, and if they don't wise up, it may be full dark soon.
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WTTCS
freedom , U.S.A.
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Let me try to understand dodgeboys attitude. Lets see, you want the WORKERS to dictate to the owners, what they make, when they work, how they work, where they work, who can work, who cannot work, how long they can work. Then you want them to supply you with lifetime health care, retirement checks, and the ability to still control the company even AFTER you have retired.
Under those "thoughts of taking care of the worker" , I would NEVER ever open a company. I always believed that in America the owner had control, little do I know huh?
Folks , we need a union for the political process......................
And I would advocate that FORD GM and any others, close the doors, fire the workers, and become a new walmart. Hire new employees at 7 bucks an hr, or minimum wage, and start over. JIMMY IS BURIED !!!
Anyone remember who posted this quote?
" Might do you well to remember some very simple economics basics you should have learned in school and/or during your post school life. UAW/union/non union/hourly/salaried/etc workers have to buy the same loaf of bread at the very same shelf price whether they are paid the national average of $28.48/hr total compensation, the transplants $48/hr compensation, or the UAW at $73.20/hr average hourly compensation."
Ya think that loaf of bread is cheaper to walmart , target, cosco, mom/pop owned businesses. gas station attendents, paperboys, or any other "job" that a trained money could do? or their workers?
And I failed SPELLING cause she was the prettiest teacher in my school and I wanted to spend as much time with her as I could. By the way, what does a rich millionaire that retired early, sound like?
Or this quote: "Here is what I see the problem is; even with you’re over priced education you can’t seem to read and understand the Union Contract that you signed but your lazy A## slug worker can. Here is a clue, fire all of your supervisors that can’t or won’t follow the contract and find some that will (btw they don’t have a Union so you don’t have to worry about them coming back lol). "
Now that is like taking up for the criminals cause the police cant catch them or the courts will not punish them. The poor rapist broke the law, but no one caught him, so he has clean hands. Now thats funny I dont care who you are.
* This post was
edited 11/04/09 12:57pm by WTTCS *
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riverrat2601
il
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Quote:As for the UAW, they are not alone. ALL unions need to be careful. The sun is setting on them, and if they don't wise up, it may be full dark soon.
Yup, and soons wez alls bees workin fer minamom waj.
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Perrysburg Dodgeboy
Perrysburg, Ohio USA
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Nope sorry WTTC’S you can spin it any way you want that is not what I said. Maybe you have some reading comprehension issues too.
Let me spell it out for you, the lazy slug supervisors would rather site in their office in the nice cool AC then do their job. If you cannot read the contract then maybe you should not be a supervisor. There are some big words in there but a Webster Dictionary will help you get through it and then you can fallow the contract and remove the troublesome workers. But as long as you don’t have a paper trail you do not stand a snow ball’s chance in H@!!. Sorry that you cannot comprehend this and yes this also holds true in our legal system.
For my good friend NUTZS, sorry both GM and FORD run well past the 90 day mark in paying their PO’s. I wonder how I know this. I ran a Tool and Cutter Grind shop for 10 years that my Dad started back in 1975 then sold in 1982 and I was hired to run it. At one point I with held almost every gun drill that the Toledo GM Power Train had until they paid the 12 or so outstanding invoices they owed me. Some were over 180 days past do and yes after that I did not get much work from them but I did not care. Even my Dad could not help me get payment on my invoices. Ford would always run 90 to 180 days in paying their invoices and still take the 3% discount I gave if paid in 30 days! Yes, I pulled the same trick on them to get me invoices paid and after that, I did not do business with Ford. So go peddle you stories to someone that does not know any better OK!
BTW nether of you have told me why it’s OK for upper management to work with a contract and get EVERY DIME they can but not the working man on the line. Funny you never will be able to explain that one will you!
Perrysburg Dodgeboy
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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Joined: 04/09/2006
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riverrat2601,
Even though I certainly do not agree with you, at least youse still gots a job and bees werkin!
Perhaps you'd prefer the 3rd world scratchin "n" squalor where there's no money left for even welfare?
Were headed in that direction presently. Our debt's enormous and unsustainable and the chickens are coming home to roost.
The party's over and the rest of the world is making sure you'll get the message loud and clear.....
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WTTCS
freedom , U.S.A.
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Dodgeboy, you make some good points, but to say that supervisors are the problem is just wrong. Why even have to have em? Why cannot a worker just do their job without someone telling them when potty break or dominio break is? You seem to put the onious on the supervisor to CONTROL the worker. Wow, that is stretching it. You can blame the supervisor all you want, but the facts are that the reason they have to have 1 million supervisors is to SUPERVISOR the dummies that violate the contract. If you sign that contract, why do you have to have someone enforce it? LOL, yea lets get a POLICE DEPT into every union shop to MAKE CERTAIN that the CONVICTS, as you seem to think a 48 dollar an hour worker is, does what they are paid to do.
But discussing it with you is fun and educational and I hold no hard feelings toward your attitude, even though we do disagree. And I promise to open minded on your views if you will do the same.
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travelnutz
West Michigan - On the Lakeshore
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Joined: 04/09/2006
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mowermech,
The simple answer to your spelling/grammatical issues are that when conversing with lessor educated individuals, I had learned many years ago to communicate at their level so they can understand. Using higher education terms such as: modulus of elasticity, finite element analysis, stress riser propagation, etc will fall on empty ears of non-comprehension. The bulk of the members on nearly any public forum are the average educated level individuals. Why not speak at a level they can understand? Read carefully Perryburg Dodgeboy's 3:58pm post and maybe you'll understand as perhaps it's the best he can muster.
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