dfb
gardnerville
Senior Member
Joined: 09/29/2005
View Profile
 Offline
|
Let's take the Oil Pressure Gauge...When cold and first started, the pressure should read higher than normal and when the engine gets warm, the gauge at idle will read low until the rpm s increase.. On my 02 PSD this did not happen nor did the temp gauge move upwards when towing a heavy load climbing a grade, it just stayed in the middle.. When going down the back side of the grade the temp should drop. But that did not happen either.. So if the oil and temp gauges are never moving after warm ups, then they are "IDIOT GUAGES"...
|
b_salgado
Salisbury ,NC,USA
Senior Member
Joined: 07/20/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
I also replied to a previous post about gauges. I have an 04 Ford. It has "idiot" gauges. I also run an Edge Monitor. I can display ALL parameters of the trucks engine monitoring system. My coolant temp in NC this time of year is about 65deg. It is in a garage. The temp gauge once started, will gradually climb to the normal range (1/2 way). The actual temp of the coolant is not reached until much later. I have seen temps as low as 98 in the normal range and I have seen temps as high as 215... still in the normal range. What is "normal"? That is a pretty big swing and the trucks gauge doesn't move! My Edge display moves constantly! Oil temp, coolant temp, trans fluid temp, actual voltage, intake temps, ect, are displayed as a digital readout. The Edge monitor is controlled by the trucks ECM, just like the factory gauges. By the time the factory gauges register a hot condition, it is usually too late to prevent damage. I can actually watch my temps increase and decrease. I know when the torque converter is locked or when it is unlocked just by looking at the trans temps. This is the difference between factory "idiot" gauges and a set of fully functional gauges. Interestingly enough, my 96 Taurus has an actual working temp gauge. While it doesn't give you a degree reading, it will move back and forth as the thermostat opens and closes. I know when the fans are running and when they are not. My Mustang on the other hand, is set up like my truck..... Just basic "idiot" gauges.
04 Lariat Supercrew 4x4,5.4,3.73, Edge tuner, flowmaster duals
06 Trail Bay 31BH, nicely optioned
Equal-i-zer
Prodigy
Follow vehicle, 05 KIA Sorento EX for the golden retrievers.
 (133 x 100).jpg)
|
BenK
SF BayArea
Senior Member
Joined: 04/18/2002
View Profile
|
Most all 2 seater sports cars have 'real' gauges and those which don't
are usually driven by folks who don't understand.
Idiot lights and gauges are for the norm of the herd. About 90% of all
drivers out there. Just read some of the threads on the 'Tow/Haul' button.
"Should I use it when towing?", etc to those who say you don't need to,
or better off not using it, or turn it off some times.
I'd call them more clueless than idiot.
Todays OEM dash gauges tell the 'trend' more than anything. If you need
or want to know what is going on, put in some quality after market gauges
Also, there are sensors for the computer that are much more accurate
and controls in the system that will mask changes in the OEM dash
gauges.
Uncle Bill had a V12 Jag. Burned up the engine. Asked him what happened
and said the dealer said it ran out of oil because the filter was
not put back on right. It had a 'real' dash oil gauge, but he is an
idiot when it comes to anything mechanical. An idiot light would have
been a better setup for him....as he 'might' have noticed that and
turned off the engine.
-Ben Picture of my rig
1996 GMC SLT Suburban 3/4 ton K3500/7.4L/4:1/+150Kmiles orig owner...
1980 Chevy Silverado C10/long bed/"BUILT" 5.7L/3:73/1 ton helper springs/+329Kmiles, bought it from dad...
1998 Mazda B2500 (1/2 ton) pickup, 2nd owner...
Praise Dyno Brake equiped and all have "nose bleed" braking!
Previous trucks/offroaders: 40's Jeep restored in mid 60's / 69 DuneBuggy (approx +1K lb: VW pan/200hpCorvair: eng, cam, dual carb'w velocity stacks'n 18" runners, 4spd transaxle) made myself from ground up / 1970 Toyota FJ40 / 1973 K5 Blazer (2dr Tahoe, 1 ton axles front/rear, +255K miles when sold it)...
Sold the boat (looking for another): Trophy with twin 150's...
51 cylinders in household, what's yours?...
|
desertt5
Abq, NM
Full Member
Joined: 03/18/2009
View Profile
Offline
|
b_salgado wrote:I also replied to a previous post about gauges. I have an 04 Ford. It has "idiot" gauges. I also run an Edge Monitor. I can display ALL parameters of the trucks engine monitoring system. My coolant temp in NC this time of year is about 65deg. It is in a garage. The temp gauge once started, will gradually climb to the normal range (1/2 way). The actual temp of the coolant is not reached until much later. I have seen temps as low as 98 in the normal range and I have seen temps as high as 215... still in the normal range. What is "normal"? That is a pretty big swing and the trucks gauge doesn't move! My Edge display moves constantly! Oil temp, coolant temp, trans fluid temp, actual voltage, intake temps, ect, are displayed as a digital readout. The Edge monitor is controlled by the trucks ECM, just like the factory gauges. By the time the factory gauges register a hot condition, it is usually too late to prevent damage. I can actually watch my temps increase and decrease. I know when the torque converter is locked or when it is unlocked just by looking at the trans temps. This is the difference between factory "idiot" gauges and a set of fully functional gauges. Interestingly enough, my 96 Taurus has an actual working temp gauge. While it doesn't give you a degree reading, it will move back and forth as the thermostat opens and closes. I know when the fans are running and when they are not. My Mustang on the other hand, is set up like my truck..... Just basic "idiot" gauges.
I was going to say the exact same thing. My ScanGauge may vary 30* on coolant and tranny temp but once the factory "gauge" reaches normal it never moves. Luckily it has never pegged either. Do not care to know if tht part still works.
Too bad there is not an aftermarket kit to repalce the in dash junk. I would buy it in a heart beat.
2003 Excursion Limited PSD 4X4
2009 KZ Spree 289KS
Equalizer / Prodigy
DW, DS, DD, DS, and 100#'s of dog
Semper Fi
|
Yahooligan
Temecula, CA
Senior Member
Joined: 11/05/2007
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
Offline
|
desertt5 wrote:
Too bad there is not an aftermarket kit to repalce the in dash junk. I would buy it in a heart beat.
It's not the gauges' faults.  The PCM is controlling the gauges, so even hooking up a real gauge (Or even a DVOM to watch the signal sent to the gauge) would show the same thing. What would be nice is a mod to either reprogram or piggyback the PCM that would finally send the actual sensor readings to the gauges.
The closest thing to that now is one of the dash-mountable programmers (Edge, Bully Dog, etc) that displays sensor info in real-time.
--
Hogan & Clan
2005 Nissan Titan CC SE 4x4
2010 Keystone Hideout 31BHSWE
|
|
|
b_salgado
Salisbury ,NC,USA
Senior Member
Joined: 07/20/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
Yahooligan wrote:desertt5 wrote:
Too bad there is not an aftermarket kit to repalce the in dash junk. I would buy it in a heart beat.
It's not the gauges' faults. The PCM is controlling the gauges, so even hooking up a real gauge (Or even a DVOM to watch the signal sent to the gauge) would show the same thing. What would be nice is a mod to either reprogram or piggyback the PCM that would finally send the actual sensor readings to the gauges.
The closest thing to that now is one of the dash-mountable programmers (Edge, Bully Dog, etc) that displays sensor info in real-time. This is EXACTLY what I have and Exactly what I am talking about. It is REAL TIME information, not a generalization.
|
smkettner
Southern California
Senior Member
Joined: 03/21/2005
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
|
Has anyone actually overheated (boiled over) a motor and the gauge did not move up?
2001 F150 SuperCrew
2006 Keystone Springdale 249FWBHLS
|
carringb
Corvallis, OR
Senior Member
Joined: 07/28/2003
View Profile
Offline
|
dfb wrote:Let's take the Oil Pressure Gauge...When cold and first started, the pressure should read higher than normal and when the engine gets warm, the gauge at idle will read low until the rpm s increase.. On my 02 PSD this did not happen nor did the temp gauge move upwards when towing a heavy load climbing a grade, it just stayed in the middle.. When going down the back side of the grade the temp should drop. But that did not happen either.. So if the oil and temp gauges are never moving after warm ups, then they are "IDIOT GUAGES"...
They both have some functionality. But it is buffered, so it won't move within a specified range.
As for oil pressure... depends where the sender is. On the Ford gassers, oil pressure is lower when cold, so sender must be post-filter. If I run a Purolator Pure-one filter, my oil pressure gauge will drop about 1/4 way at idle when it's really cold. (I have since stopped using them as they are so restrictive).
Ditto w/ temp gauge. Not sure the point it will start to rise. I have a ScanGauge, and it turns out the engine never gets hot at all. Hottest I have seen was at 22,000 pounds on a 7% grade 97F outside. Engine reached 209F. Never seen hotter yet.
I personally wouldn't worry about it
Bryan
2000 Ford E350 DRW Wagon (14-pass all captains chairs)
V10 w/ Banks PowerPack, Diablo Predator, 4.56 LS, 250,000+ miles
Had: Weekend Warrior 41' FSW
|
Robert6401
Gilbert, SC
Full Member
Joined: 02/07/2009
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club
Offline
|
I am just going to say that if you make the investment in some aftermarket gauges, primarily EGT and Trans Temp, you will see exactly why the factory gauges are called "IDIOT GAUGES." They simply do not give you an accurate representation of how hard you drivetrain is working. Check out www.ford-trucks.com/forums . You will be able to get more specific answers over there from guys who live for this stuff.
2003 Ford 7.3 Superduty
2009 Forest River Sierra 335QBQ
Me, DW, DS(6), DD(4)
|
Ductape
On the Road
Senior Member
Joined: 11/15/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
From a Dodge truck manual: "The instrument cluster circuitry restricts the oil pressure gauge needle operation in order to provide readings that are consistent with customer expectations."
In other words, it is not designed to tell you what the measurement is. It tells you what you expect it to.
Perhaps a better term than idiot gauge would be "Politician Gauge".
Surveyor SV-234
|
|
|
|
