B. BOOMER
lost somewhere in america
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Joined: 07/10/2004
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just wish that the LOCAL sheriff's office would have allowed the STATE to come in right after it occurred and when they FIRST offered to HELP with the investigation -- especially for the sake of the victim's FAMILY -who didn't KNOW what had happened and naturally wanted more answers -- no doubt "territorial turf tunnel vision" ... still tragic for all parties involved
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Sportsman Matt
Blackstone, MA
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Joined: 10/16/2007
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I've seen this story before, one fellow thinking that everyone is trying to steal from him because he got one and they didn't.
Worse is when you actually catch someone trying to tag a fresh kill with their own tag, even though they didn't even fire a shot.
I've pretty much given up on hunting, heck even the fishing is getting bad in some areas due to drunk and abusive fishermen, pretty soon we'll all have to be packing heat just to sit on the beach the way society is going.
Life is short, Play harder.
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Fishing and Hunting New England and eventually the world
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Geewizard
Alaska, USA
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Joined: 08/25/2004
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Sportsman Matt, holy cow! The world ain't that bad!
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Marion Creek, Alaska
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BlueStilly
Stanwood, Washington
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Joined: 09/06/2006
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Geewizard wrote:Sportsman Matt, holy cow! The world ain't that bad!
'Geewizard' ya live in Alaska. Yes, your bears are bigger and meaner than in most places in the lower 48  , but it seems we have a lot more crazy 2 legg'ed critters down here  . Too many folks just itch'in for a fight for no good reason at all....
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Geewizard
Alaska, USA
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Joined: 08/25/2004
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Yes, the bears may be bigger here but I think we have our share of the "crazies" too.
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B2BBQ
Long Island
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Joined: 06/11/2009
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I think I've seen almost everything living in NYC for 45 years. Therefore, I guess some boondock to get away from the daily news or random crazyness.
I wonder at what cost?
For me, it would count as loss if I chose only to boondock far away and missed my only chance to randomly met some of you in person enjoying this hobby.
Chance meetings happen, not all are bad, and I have a say in their outcome!
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DandE
WI, but looking for a better place
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I just think that not all people that drink and own guns are crazy or nuts.
Dale & Ellen
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sleepy
Oak Ridge,Tennessee
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Joined: 04/07/2003
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DandE wrote:I just think that not all people that drink and own guns are crazy or nuts.
It's like drinking and driving
choose one... drink and NO drive
OR Drive and no drink.
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BTW.... This article isn't about boondocking....
We invite those of you that we have come to "know" on the forum... we don't seem to have a need to pick up camping dates with no fore knowledge in RV parking lots
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bka0721
Republic of Colorado
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Joined: 03/19/2008
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DandE wrote:I just think that not all people that drink and own guns are crazy or nuts.
I couldn’t agree with you more, DandE.
I too own numerous guns and enjoy an occasional “shot” of Tequila with friends. But, that is where it ends, because I have a lot of respect for others and the law in handling a firearm while under the influence of alcohol. Nothing good ever comes from it. I grew up on the plains of Kansas and we hunted before and after school and it was common to see guns in racks of the truck windows in our high school parking lot. Times and behaviors have changed and so does our thinking and actions when it comes to situations like this topic thread.
I would suspect that the other victims of this tragedy, the means family, would wish that Mr. Means had not drank that night.
This thread also brings up another point and that is some other person might have witnessed this episode and reacted differently when guns are too accessible, by shooting the non aggressors before determining whom is the threat. Again, be sure of your target and have a good exit plan, if needed. When I have drawn a weapon on a person and discharged it, it was always for a direct threat and a conscious knowledge of fear for life of others or myself, not for a material possession or someone messing with my stuff. I would never want my decisions clouded by alcohol, drugs or diminished capacity and would hope that my aggressor was not diminished either, as I would not hesitate to either walk away or make that final decision.
I am not the investigator, or presented with all of the facts, but the grand jury report reflects that Mr. Havlik laid his weapon down and attempted to back away, Mr. Means continued to be the aggressor, possibly clouded by alcohol as we will never know, and others in the immediate area felt the situation escalating and seeked the best means to end it. Obviously Mr. Means was not daunted by the sheer numbers of who he encountered. I agree with an earlier post of the aggressive nature of others that claim ownership of downed game, dogs and or equipment, in many rural areas. But this is just stuff.
My stance remains the same; I would have ended the situation much the same, but it would not have been my action to wound, double tap to center mass is and has been my training. I strongly feel that introducing alcohol with firearms, and Pop Warner Football games for that matter, is unwise and against the law in the United States of America and its Territories.
My heart and prayers goes to all those involved, the young Havlik child and the family and friends of Mr. Means. Just like shooting into the air and woods, we are always responsible for own actions, no matter how we wish to blame others and or excuse our actions.
One of my greatest pleasures, on a road trip, is the meeting of others along the way. Everyone has a story to share, if we were only to ask. My preference is to camp in the middle of nowhere and my concerns only arise when I am surrounded by telephone poles and sidewalks.
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RetiredbutWorking
Central Texas
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Joined: 02/10/2006
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Thanks for posting the rest of the story. Excessive amounts of alcohol does not mix well with any activity. To bad this Means fellow didn't know that.
RBW
USAF, Retired
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