|
|
| Fifth-Wheels Related Tips |
|
|
|
sirdrakejr
Las Vegas, Nevada
Moderator
Joined: 11/18/2001
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
 Offline
|
Travelmate.
The terms GVWR and GCWR are NOT interchangeable. GVWR refers ONLY to the CARRYING capacity of the truck. GCWR refers to the TOWING capacity of the truck which INCLUDES the weights of the TV and the towed vehicle. You can tow a total of 23,000# and that is the total of both vehicles. I would expect the CARRYING capacity of the Chev DRW 1T to be about 11,500# and would limit you to towing 11,500# if you fully loaded the Chev to the 11,500 GVWR.
It is very easy to get trapped by the numbers and find out too late that you are either over the GVWR or GCWR. Most new 5th wheels will put you over the GVWR BEFORE you exceed the GCWR due to the heavier weight of the front of the 5th due to the slides.
Frank
|
NEVERSWEAT7
Bakersfield, Ca. USA
Senior Member
Joined: 02/02/2004
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
Travelmate wrote:I purchased last May a 2005 Chevy 3500 Silverado, DRW, Crewcab, Duramax, Allison trans after being a Ford Diesel owner for many years. I tow a 34 ft. Travel Supreme triple axle with elec/hydraulic brakes. Total wt. rig and truck, loaded about 23000 lbs. GVWR for truck is 23500 lbs. This is the first truck that I have ever owned that towed adequately as equipped from the factory. Previously I have had to add after market equipment (Banks) to get adequate power. Dual rear wheels give some added stability but are certainly not a necessity. The 5 speed Allison transmission is a winner!
It looks as though there may be a little confusion between the GCWR which is the total of both TV and coach, and the GVWR which is just the weight of the TV. Perhaps the higher rated MDT's have that GVWR but I do not think that any of the big three in the 350-3500 size are going to have that capability.
2010 F-450 King Ranch Loaded. AeroTank 65 gallon auxillary tank/toolbox with timer,
2005 Alpenlite Portofino/ loaded/ 500 watts Kyocera Solar
Reese 24K Signature Series Fifthwheel Hitch Sig Series 30K Gooseneck
|
ptgarcia
Fontana, CA
Senior Member
Joined: 04/19/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
I'm sure Travelmate meant GCWR.
Pauly
Travel Trailer: 2005 Thor Jazz 2510FL
Tow Vehicle: 2006 Dodge MegaCab 3500 4x4 Cummins Turbo Diesel
|
Notsdale
Colorado Springs, CO
Full Member
Joined: 09/24/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
With the diesel pickups pulling is not "the" issue. Tire limitations, stopping, and safety are the issues. On a SRW truck, the typical load limit of the tires is between 6000 and 6800. The typical weight on the rear axle is between 3200 and 3600. This leaves about 2800-3200 pounds for king pin weight. Be aware that as you start reaching the upper load limits of the tires the stability of the truck decreases. You get wiggle in the rear in and are more susceptable to wind and interference from other vehicles.
2004 Teton Experience Laramie, 5.5K Onan Gen, TrailAir Pin Box
2003 GMC 3500HD D/A 4X4, Prodigy Brake Controller
Signature Series 20K Slider Hitch, Firestone Airbags
|
Notsdale
Colorado Springs, CO
Full Member
Joined: 09/24/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
I've said this before but I'll say it again here.
Pickups are rated with several ratings:
1.) Capability of the truck with a load (GVWR)
2.) Capability of the truck with a trailer (CGVWR)
3.) Capability of the axles (GAWR)
I may be wrong on this but I don't think so. As I read the specs on a pickup it states the three things above: GVWR, GCVWR, and GAWR.
If I'm hauling a load such as a slide in camper I need to be concerned about the GVWR. This is the ability of the truck to safely handle the load and stop it using its own brakes.
If I'm pulling a trailer with its own braking system I need to be concerned about the GCVWR and the GAWR. I'm not concerned about the GVWR. The truck has brakes rated at its GVWR and the trailer has brakes rated at its GAWR. In most cases you will hit the GAWR of the truck before you hit its GCVWR. I say this because the recommended weight of a fifth wheel (and I think a gooseneck as well) is 20-25 percent of the total weight of the trailer.
|
|
|
Gadget99
Silver Spring, MD
Senior Member
Joined: 09/01/2004
View Profile
|
wilber1 wrote:Let's see, 20% of 16,000 lbs for a pin weight comes to 3200 lbs. Subtract that from the trucks 9900 lb GVWR and you get 6700 lbs. If you figure your future truck will weigh less than 6700 lbs with full fuel, hitch, you and anyone or anything else you are going to put in it, you are good to go. Not likely, IMO.
You have only given the trailer's GVWR and type of truck you are looking for, so it is impossible to be specific unless you know the actual pin weight of the trailer fully loaded, but if you want to haul that trailer at its rated weight with a SRW one ton and still be legal, this is what you are up against.
I don't know about the other manufacturers, but, Alpenlite tends to be a bit heavier on the pin than the 20% quoted. The dry weight listed in the brochure is about 21% and mine is over 22% without a washer/dryer, generator, or even many clothes in the bedroom, all of which would be up front towards the pin. I imagine that with the generator and a closet full of clothes we would be closer to 25%
Gadget99
2005 Alpenlite Portofino 36RL, TrailAir suspension, dual A/C, Magnum Opus Toilet, BU camera, Bigfoot Auto Levelers
2005 F-350 King Ranch CC DRW FX4 PSD Tow Boss, Line-X, Pace Edwards Bedlocker, Gauges, AirRide Hitch, PressurePro and all goodies
|
ryoung
Indiana
Senior Member
Joined: 11/11/2002
View Profile
 Online
|
Notsdale wrote:If I'm pulling a trailer with its own braking system I need to be concerned about the GCVWR and the GAWR. I'm not concerned about the GVWR. The truck has brakes rated at its GVWR and the trailer has brakes rated at its GAWR.
From my interpretation of the above quote, you are saying that the tv does not require any additional braking ability to stop the trailer being towed.
A tow vehicle must be rated to "carry" some of the weight of the trailer and be must be rated to "pull" itself plus the remaining weight of the trailer. These are referred to GVWR and GCVWR.
My setup in signature below carries a heavy pin weight of nearly 3000 lbs and with main and aux fuel tanks full, hitch, passengers, etc., the truck scales at 11,420 lbs with the trailer attached. The trucks GVWR is 11,500 lbs.
From what you are saying, I can carry another 1000 lbs or so of pin weight and not be concerned about the GVWR, which directly affects the braking ability of the vehicle?
Naw, I don't thinks so.
Simply put the vehicle must have the ability to stop the weight it is carrying and the trailer must have the braking ability to stop the weight that is being carried on the trailer axles.
When you ignore GVWR there are other issues to deal with besides braking; suspension, drive line angles, steering, are just a few.
ryoung
2004 Dodge 3500 Dually HO CTD 6 sp 4.10
2004 Lance 915
|
darksotmoon
Warren, MI
Senior Member
Joined: 02/10/2005
View Profile
|
Man, don't ever ask a 'can' I tow, on this forum. There are people here who would swear you can't tow a bicycle with a W900 Kenworth!!! All joking aside, the difference in price between a Ford F350 and F450 is so small, that for the sake of comfort in towing, go with the F450!
Moon
Mike, DW Sue,
The Kids and grandkids,
All the friends and nieghbors we can convince!
My friends call me 'Moon'
1998 Ford 250
2005 Rockwood 8280 5er
Camping Michigan till they kick me out!
|
bkellerman
Pensacola, FL
Senior Member
Joined: 01/17/2002
View Profile
Good Sam RV Club Member
Offline
|
We are towing a 39'9" fifth wheel with a 2006 Ford SRW F350 4X4 Loaded with all the Towing, Snowplowing & Camper packages. Trailer GVWR is 15,000 lbs. Had it all weighed at the escapees rally with each wheel weighed seperately. King pin weight was 3000# and every wheel weight was within specs. on the TV and trailer. We are full timers and the rig handles like a dream even coming through the Blue Ridge and Smokie Mountains. Make sure your tires are inflated to maximum specs. Happy Campin'.
Bill
|
wilber1
Abbotsford B.C. Canada
Senior Member
Joined: 12/16/2002
View Profile
|
bkellerman wrote:We are towing a 39'9" fifth wheel with a 2006 Ford SRW F350 4X4 Loaded with all the Towing, Snowplowing & Camper packages. Trailer GVWR is 15,000 lbs. Had it all weighed at the escapees rally with each wheel weighed seperately. King pin weight was 3000# and every wheel weight was within specs. on the TV and trailer. We are full timers and the rig handles like a dream even coming through the Blue Ridge and Smokie Mountains. Make sure your tires are inflated to maximum specs. Happy Campin'.
Bill
Was your truck within its GVWR loaded and with the trailer hooked up? This is after all, a legal limit in every jurisdiction I know of. It may not be enforced very often and most trucks will handle more quite well but that doesn't change the fact that being over its GVWR isn't legal, even though it may be well within the axle and tire ratings.
"Never trust a man who has not a single redeeming vice" WSC
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
